Yerko
14 years ago
The NFL is going to start fining offensive and defensive linemen for colliding with helmets first.

Fullbacks are next. Talk about a player who is more than 50% of the time using his helmet on a block/hit.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

I just think the whole "fundamental" perspective is hilarious.
1.How many times a game do you actually see a player making a fundamental tackle?
2. How many times do you jump out of your seat after seeing a hit such as this?
3. If there was no flag thrown, you all would be saying THAT WAS A GREAT HIT.
Its football, hits like this happen. To add, I did believe he deserved the fine because he broke a rule but lay off the mumbo-jumbo fundamental b.s.

"G-Force" wrote:



1. Extremely rarely. Which IMO detracts significantly from the quality of the product being provided.
2. Very rarely. I haven't celebrated "BANG!" hits for years.
3. Nope. I don't define "good" by whether something is "legal" or not. IMO those who define "what's moral" or "what's good" by "what's legal" seriously misunderstand the role that law/rules play.

Yes, hits happen. And if they happen, they should be chastised in some way.

If I want to see a human missile, I'll go to the circus. If I want to see quality football, I want to see people who can stop people dead in their tracks by proper tackling.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Greg C.
14 years ago

IMO he ducked his head AFTER the ball had already passed Williams hands.

"Wade" wrote:



That's what I thought when I first looked at DJ's pictures, but then I realized that from Collins' angle, he could not see that Williams had dropped the pass because Williams was blocking his view. And keep in mind that the entire time elapsed in that picture sequence is probably somewhere around half a second.

CORRECTION: I watched the game again, and Collins COULD in fact see the ball pop out before he hit Williams. It was still a bang-bang play though. As pack93z said, players will just have to get in the habit of aiming lower.
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Yerko
14 years ago


1. Extremely rarely. Which IMO detracts significantly from the quality of the product being provided.
2. Very rarely. I haven't celebrated "BANG!" hits for years.
3. Nope. I don't define "good" by whether something is "legal" or not. IMO those who define "what's moral" or "what's good" by "what's legal" seriously misunderstand the role that law/rules play.

Yes, hits happen. And if they happen, they should be chastised in some way.

If I want to see a human missile, I'll go to the circus. If I want to see quality football, I want to see people who can stop people dead in their tracks by proper tackling.

"Wade" wrote:



I am not trying to come off as an ass in this but NFL players rarely form tackle, which is why I am ignoring that argument. I can get excited by any hit as long as the other player goes down. I still celebrate the big hits, why not? In the same sense if a player doesn't use form and misses a tackle, I get pissed (I am a hypocrite).

In this position, Collins has no reason to make a form tackle nor is he in the proper place to do so. All he was trying to do was knock that ball loose had Williams somehow got a hand on it.

Anyways, like yourself...I can appreciate a form tackle when it happens.

Clay Matthews hit on Marion Barber. THAT was form! :thumbright:
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Greg C.
14 years ago

And to think, all this wouldn't matter if there weren't so many damn pansies in the world. THIS IS FOOTBALL!!!! PEOPLE GET HIT!!! All through out my playing days when on defense I was told to hit the player so it hurt, so they wouldn't want to get back up. On the offense line I was told to put the defender on his ass...

You don't like it, go play or watch soccer.

I am all about player safety, but my goodness the NFL is taking a dump right now and really living up to the No Fun League.

"G-Force" wrote:



I don't think "pansies" enter into the picture, considering that pro football probably results in more catastrophic injuries than any other sport. I bet it's not even close.

It's all well and good that back in your playing days you were told to hit players so that they could not get up, but I'm guessing that you were nowhere near as strong or fast as NFL players. That's why the NFL keeps having to make these new rules. The players keep getting stronger and faster.

I don't mind when the league takes measures to reduce head injuries, but I agree with pack93z that they should have waited till the off-season, like they usually do when they make such changes. Like so many things the league does, this smacks of look-goodism more than a serious attempt to address the problem.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I think Hockey is right there or past the NFL in injuries. Puck to the face?
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Yerko
14 years ago


I don't think "pansies" enter into the picture, considering that pro football probably results in more catastrophic injuries than any other sport. I bet it's not even close.

It's all well and good that back in your playing days you were told to hit players so that they could not get up, but I'm guessing that you were nowhere near as strong or fast as NFL players. That's why the NFL keeps having to make these new rules. The players keep getting stronger and faster.

I don't mind when the league takes measures to reduce head injuries, but I agree with pack93z that they should have waited till the off-season, like they usually do when they make such changes. Like so many things the league does, this smacks of look-goodism more than a serious attempt to address the problem.

"Greg C." wrote:



I'm only 25 so back then was only two years ago and yes, that is why I am posting in a football forum.

I was trying to say players are taught to hit as hard as they can, when they can and when a big hit is made, it can easily be a game changer as well.

The hit was illegal, it was dangerous, and it was properly taken care of. I just think it was an accident. I think back to Zombo's helmet to helmet (no where near to comparable obviously). He was easily in position to make a form tackle...had the wrap up and everything, but his helmet made contact with the qb's chin. Pure accident, minor fine (major to him).

Who cares anyways, Nick Collins can more than afford it.

NFL should donate some of this fine money to my student loan debt.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago
The NFL usually gets this right, in this case though, this should have been released prior to the change.


League releases guidelines regarding hitting
Posted by Mike Florio on November 10, 2010 12:37 AM ET
At a time when the media and multiple players have failed to provide NFL fans with clear information regarding prohibited and permitted actions when it comes to hitting in football and only one day after Commissioner Roger Goodell missed an opportunity to provide a clear statement regarding the line between aggressive football action and a violation of the rules during an on-air interview with ESPN's Michele Tafoya, the league has released to the media its "Player Safety" guidelines.

These are not the official rules, but the document that explains what the rules allow and forbid, including diagrams of illegal hits. It was included in the 2010 League Policies for Players manual, which is distributed to all players and coaches at the opening of training camp. (And which, unfortunately, is actually read by likely less than one percent of its recipients.)

"We hope this information is helpful in understanding the NFL's player safety-related rules," NFL V.P. of football communications Michael Signora wrote in the e-mail accompanying the document. "There has been no change in rules since the start of the season, only an increase in the level of discipline for violations of existing rules."

The rules are fairly simple. Defenseless players can't be hit in the helmet or neck area, and they can't be struck with a helmet in any area of the body.

Defenseless players include: (a) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (b) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (c) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (d) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (e) a player on the ground at the end of a play.

Also, a receiver who has completed a catch (i.e., two feet down and a "football move") and who has not had time to protect himself cannot be struck in head, neck, or face via a launch, even if the initial contact occurs at a point lower than the neck of the receiver.

As we've recently pointed out, hitting a ball carrier with the helmet or in the helmet is not prohibited, unless the use of the helmet amounts to spearing. It's a know-it-when-you-see-it distinction. Players routinely dip their helmets/facemasks into a tackle, while still seeing their target. Helmet-to-helmet contact resulting from that maneuver is allowed. Dropping the helmet and ramming the top of it into an opponent constitutes spearing, a maneuver now rarely seen in football at any level because of the high risk of compression -- and fracture -- of the spine.

Hopefully, members of the media will come up with effective strategies for weaving this information into the coverage of NFL games. For now, the P.R. battle is being won by the skirts-and-flag-football crowd, with too little clear and accurate information being provided to fans who would be inclined to argue in response that the league is targeting only a narrow window of hits that entail enhanced risk of injury.

Big hits are still allowed, as Bengals Terrell Owens learned Monday night when Steelers safety Troy Polamalu flattened T.O. with a clean shoulder hit to the midsection. Owens bounced right up; all too often, receivers who take that kind of a hit to the head don't.

"PFTalk" wrote:


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Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (1h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (2h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (12h) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (12h) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (12h) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (13h) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (16h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (16h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (16h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (19h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (19h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (19h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (19h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (19h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (19h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (19h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (19h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (20h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (21h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (21h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (21h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (21h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (21h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (21h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (22h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (22h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
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