But hey, down with the public option, right?

It's a shame that people think healthcare is just another commodity the wealthy should have better access to, like a luxury car. Americans are for the most part selfish and scared, though, and it's never going to change. Trying to do something for the good of the people as a whole was a lost cause from the beginning.

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As noble as providing healthcare for everyone might be, that is not the purpose of government.

If do-gooders want to ensure everyone has health insurance, they should band together out of the goodness of their hearts, open their own purses, and found organizations that can provide this service. Hell, I would cheerfully contribute to such an organization (my dream in life is to be a doctor who gives away healthcare to those who cannot afford to pay). But these people shouldn't be abusing the power of government fiat to force the rest of us to dip into our pockets to subsidize a service we do not agree with.

As Thomas Jefferson said, taxing someone to pay for something that is antithetical to his beliefs is the worst form of tyranny.

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But the government wasn't put in place to watch a good majority of the public to be unable to obtain healthcare at a reasonable cost either.

With this type of argument.. we shouldn't supply schools, transportation systems or any other government funded programs since it consumes some of our tax payed money..

Simply put.. we were the greatest country on this planet.. yet we are going to allow some not to be granted the right to health care.

Come now.. you really believe that we don't need to reform and regulate health care?

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I don't want health care. This may surprise you, but in the 20+ years since I've moved out of from my parents' house, I've had it for about half that time.

Health care is expensive and provides me nothing. I have gone to doctors for various ailments and paid by check. It's much cheaper than health care doing it that way. Plus, doctors are stoked when you pay them by check or credit card so they actually get paid immediately instead of 3 months later (plus who knows how much paperwork). So they often cut you a deal. I've seen real doctors and gotten antibiotic drugs from them before for a whopping $75 when paying by check.

Health care is a Right? No. It's not. Free Speech is a Right. Bearing Arms is a Right. Petitioning your government and Assembly are Rights. I don't see where health care is in that, and frankly, I don't think I should be paying for someone else.

Here's where I get nasty (and will offend some people). The vast majority of Americans are grossly out of shape. Their bad choices cost me dearly. Why should I get punished because other people make bad decisions?

Look. I believe in people's Rights to do anything they want. If you want to snort coke off a hooker, hey, more power to you. However, if you have a heart attack because you did one too many lines, it should be your problem, not mine.

Also, if you are out of shape and have a heart attack in your 30s, I told you to exercise and you didn't listen. Shouldn't be my fault. The reason for our ridiculous health care costs in this country are because of lawyers, insurance companies, and a grossly out of shape populace. I don't want to pay into this scam out of my tax money. It's as simple as that.

NOTE: To be fair, I do believe in taking care of Vets and the disabled.

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Very perceptive of you. :)

The Constitution clearly delineates the role of the federal government. None of the functions you mentioned above are delegated to Congress therein. The only mention of transportation is in Article I Section 8, which states that Congress has the power "[t]o establish Post Offices and Post Roads." In other words, the intended role Congress was supposed to play in transportation was solely to facilitate the delivery of mail.

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My point is simple.. we can't keep wading in the pool that is health care without either leaping out of it completely or diving in neck deep.

Like it or not.. this country has built in socialistic measures that run on tax payers money.

We provide education to supposedly strengthen the countries education baseline and have more productive workers to foot the tax base.

We provide the transportation system to help the economy grow, provide more jobs which will reap more taxes.

This country has been built successfully upon these principles for many a decade.

Now.. we are saying piss up a rope if you get sick and need treatment so you can continue working.

Listen.. not all people have health issues because of poor health.. and some of us poor bastards have never had a hand out for unemployment money or what not.. instead they made sure they always had stable employment and paid our own way.. even though the option was there to live off of Social Security.. and these same people are getting eaten alive by medical costs.. but fuck them.. it is their fault. What the fuck ever.

My real issue is the government shouldn't fund this.. but they should stop accepting the lobbyists dollars on the hill that are preventing more affordable health care and put some regulatory measuring into the system to put some checks and balances to control costs.

When you know that the industry could provide a better more complete level of healthcare for a fraction of the cost.. there are issues that need to be controlled. Right now between the insurance companies and the providers they have a monopoly on the services and are raping the public over the coals.

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As I pointed out previously, it was Medicare reform that was the primary driver behind increased costs. When Medicare reduced payments, the healthcare industry was forced to raise prices on everyone else to compensate. Now these same lowered prices will be offered across the board. The industry will have to compensate again somehow, and it's going to be through reduced services. Is this the reform you want?

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OK. I didn't mean to sound so cold.

I've had 2 periods in my life where I was dirt poor. One period I got pretty sick and went to County. It's pretty affordable and they work with you for payments. You get bad service and you wait in line forever, but thinking that this country does nothing for the poor is absurd.

We do take care of the poor. It's often, the poor don't know the options they have.

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Sorry I snapped a little.. but blanket statements like that just do little justice to the overall issue.

Simply put.. the health care industry and those that feed it are setting the biggest monopoly on the service that this country has ever seen.. and as the years pass it is more about the bottom line than the service at all.

You can point the finger of blame all over.. but the industry is simply raping a public that has little choice.. and last time I checked that isn't what the founders had in mind for this country.

I will step out of this discussion as it will just spiral into a heated debate.. I am middle class... never took a penny in unemployment or aid.. hold health insurance that has become unaffordable.. but I should just make a choice to either live in pain and not seek health care.. or be buried in debt the rest of my life yet gain a little bit of health back so that I can continue to work and shell out money for others via taxes.

Point is the system is broken and needs to be fixed.. and it effects everyone in some shape or form.

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You're right. The Founders would have been stunned to know that the American public would come to expect insurance companies to foot the bill for every little complaint they had. Insurance was intended to cover catastrophic situations, and operates best in such a capacity, not function as an alternate payer for routine care.

Healthcare costs would plummet if more Americans paid out of pocket for care whenever possible. That's how I was raised, and that's how I intend to raise my family.

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