warhawk
  • warhawk
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

A weird thought just occurred to me. Is it possible the reason why we have a top-five defense is because our opponents start out with such excellent field position that our defense just doesn't have too many yards to give up? As has been pointed out in other threads, the Bucs had all of two drives of more than 50 yards. Our defense may not have given up many yards, but they didn't have many yards to give. Maybe the numbers are deceiving. I'm not sure how this could be analyzed, though.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




Try spinning it around, though - perhaps some of us aren't seeing the improvements on defense because of the scores and are discounting that field position effect? Thus the top-5 rating isn't misleading, but is an indicator that the defense is playing well, but those short fields are screwing the end result?

Tampa put together, what? One long drive? As someone astutely pointed out in another thread, between the int returns (one pick 6, one to the 7 yl) and the ST fuckups (blocked punt returned for TD, the ridiculous return after Rodgers' rushing TD), the defense was 'responsible' for 14 of 28 points, and those came on drives that started inside our 20. Would I love to think our defense could go in and shut those short-field drives down? Absolutely. Is it realistic or even fair to expect that? Hell, no.

The defense has plenty of room for improvement - there's no question about that, and one key piece to that puzzle is getting the pressure home and getting sacks. But they ARE improved and continuing to get better.

I don't know - perhaps I'm trying to hard to illuminate areas where the team is good. Perhaps you're right and the high ranking is because the yardage totals are artificially low, due to the short fields. Maybe somehow ST will perform well this week and we'll get a better sense of how the defense can perform against a good offensive team.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



No, you are on the right track. Special Teams have been far worse the last two weeks and the stats show the affects of this problem. Two weeks ago we were well within the top ten in both Scoring Defense giving up something like 17 points and Total Yards Allowed we were in the top ten as well.

AFTER these two weeks our Scoring Defense has dropped to 21st at a little over 21 points a game but our Yards Allowed has stayed close to the same.

What's happened to us the last two weeks is pretty simple stuff to see through. You can't give a team like the Vikes excellent field position and far more return yards than you produce yourself and you can't give ANY team 28 points and expect to win.

There are also the hidden negatives of rarely getting decent field position ourselves when receiving a punt or a kickoff. It seems like everytime we do something there is a penalty. Underwood should have been kicked off return teams long ago. He ALWAYS holds somebody anytime we actually get a decent return.

As I have said this is a HUGE game and if we are going to turn anything around we need a reversal of poor ST's play because I believe in most the games we have lost had the return/coverage stats even been close to even we would have won at least a couple of them.

I believe for us to go 6-2 and do anything this year ST's have to win that third phase battle and it's concerning because I am not sure they can do it.
"The train is leaving the station."
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

So im a hater because i brought up a very good point? Where do we rank in sacks or points allowed and turnovers? Also look at the top 2 defenses by yds per game they arent a winning team either hell washington is ranked 6th in least yds per game. we rank 15th in points allowed 29th in sacks and turnovers we are actually pretty good at with 23 of them. Now lets see what it looks like in a few weeks after we play some real offenses.

"dhazer" wrote:



I don't think you're a hater based on your statement about the defense. I just think you're failing to understand the big picture. Fail is a strong word and its not intended. I just lack the thesaurus knowledge that Nonstopdrivel possesses.

I'd like to say the Bengals, Vikings, Vikings are pretty good offensively. I can't say that about the rest of the teams we played. Bad to average at best for the rest. The Bears CAN be good, but too inconsistent.
UserPostedImage
nerdmann
15 years ago

I'm not aiming for excuses. Just trying to look at the big picture. Rankings are set by teams that play other teams. When we are a head of other teams who've played the same bad teams, I don't see the point in discrediting our success against them.

Our special teams is BAD for our TEAM, but is making our defense look good.

I'm all about pointing out the good and the bad. I'm just wanting us to be real. That's all.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




I really don't see how they're making the defense "look good." They end up giving up more points, but not necessarily as many yards. Big deal. The defense also gets significantly fewer sack opportunities. Fewer plays in general, so fewer turnover opportunities as well, which is a big skill on this defense.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

I really don't see how they're making the defense "look good."

"nerdmann" wrote:



I'm not surprised.
UserPostedImage
Stevetarded
15 years ago
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef 

Football Outsiders has GB defense ranked 5th and I believe they do adjust it for strength of schedule.
blank
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

A weird thought just occurred to me. Is it possible the reason why we have a top-five defense is because our opponents start out with such excellent field position that our defense just doesn't have too many yards to give up? As has been pointed out in other threads, the Bucs had all of two drives of more than 50 yards. Our defense may not have given up many yards, but they didn't have many yards to give. Maybe the numbers are deceiving. I'm not sure how this could be analyzed, though.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



How does the defense rank in points given up? Wouldn't that give a ballpark estimate of how much the rank-by-yards-given is off?
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
ack...hit submit too early...

anyway, was about to say, if the team is ranked 5 in yards allowed, and ranked, say, 25 in points given up, then they'd be about 15th overall.

(And, yes, for those statistically trained, I know you can't just average apples and oranges that way; my point is that the real ranking is somewhere "in between" what the "yards" say and what the "points" say.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Our team is ranked 16th with 21.5 points given up per game. I don't think that number takes into consideration special teams points (i.e., returns for touchdown).
UserPostedImage
warhawk
  • warhawk
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

Our team is ranked 16th with 21.5 points given up per game. I don't think that number takes into consideration special teams points (i.e., returns for touchdown).

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



That's the problem with statistics. They don't always tell the story. In the last two games I know you can take at least 40 points off the backs of the defense unless your going to blame them for 14 yard drives.

I know all defenses suffer statistically from points put up they had nothing to do with but my GOD! In the last two games we have had a punt blocked for a TD, a kickoff return for a TD, a kickoff allowed down to our 14,an INT returned for a TD, an INT returned to our 7 yard line, a couple other LONG kickoff returns and a couple of punts returned at or beyond our 50.

I would like to know how many drives we have given up beyond 75 yards that resulted in a TD. I can think of TWO. That tells me if we just went out and played some dang football, moved the ball at the beginning of games for a change, and made teams go the field vs. giving away points and excellent field position we would be fine.
"The train is leaving the station."
WhiskeySam
15 years ago

Our team is ranked 16th with 21.5 points given up per game. I don't think that number takes into consideration special teams points (i.e., returns for touchdown).

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=SCORING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2009&seasonType=REG 
Nemo me impune lacessit
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    beast (8h) : Yeah, but also some of the wording suggestions Jax only pranked called the QB, not the others... and if he had an open spreadsheet & 3 calls
    beast (8h) : Thank goodness he's not leaving the Turtle in the Red Tide
    Mucky Tundra (9h) : Cowboys 1st round pick Tyler Booker will indeed be bringing his pet turtle to Dallas with him
    Mucky Tundra (9h) : that contained all prospects info and contact
    Mucky Tundra (9h) : beast, according the Falcons statement Jax came across it on an ipad. If I had to guess, probably an open spread sheet or something
    Zero2Cool (9h) : Simmons put up an emoji with cheese.
    beast (10h) : Not sure anyone is interested in Isaiah Simmons... Collin Oliver might of taken his potential slot
    beast (10h) : I'm going with Jax Ulbrich is not telling the whole truth... he accidentally came across it? Why would a defensive coordinator have a QB #?
    Zero2Cool (10h) : He's not that great, but final piece of the script.\
    Zero2Cool (10h) : If we add Isaiah Simmons, book your Super Bowl tickets
    Mucky Tundra (11h) : Colts 1st round TE Tyler Warren also got prank called, was that Jax Ulbrich as well?
    Zero2Cool (11h) : Jax Ulbrich, Jeff Ulbrich’s son, released an apology for his role in the Shedeur Sanders prank call.
    Martha Careful (11h) : apparently he did not participate in practice or play on the east west shrine game nor the NFL combine. The kid was a mediocre spoiled brat
    Mucky Tundra (11h) : Yeah that one that was a super wounded duck that Sanders supporters are highlighting to prove a point
    Zero2Cool (12h) : Shough is the guy who missed guys at combine isn't he?
    beast (12h) : It's not official until I'm dead! I have a chance still! (Not really)
    Mucky Tundra (21h) : I could feel my body decomposing in real time when I read that
    Mucky Tundra (21h) : @MIKEYSAINRISTIL Tyler Shough will officially be the last person drafted to the NFL born in the 1900’s
    Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : saw the tweet, he meant the city
    Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : Was that for the team or the city?
    Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 3m Draft grade is in: Green Bay gets an A. The people, the city, the venue were all superb. NFL Draft’s next
    Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matt LaFleur says Jaire Alexander is participating in #Packers offseason program, which has been conducted virtually during this first week
    Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : ✅ ...
    buckeyepackfan (26-Apr) : Check
    Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matthew Golden cahanged 81 to 22??
    TheKanataThrilla (26-Apr) : Sam Howell to Vikings...guess no Aaron
    Martha Careful (26-Apr) : 1 round 7 min, with one extra minute if there is a trade. 2nd round 4 minutes, 3rd -3, 2 thereafter IMO
    Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Agree
    dfosterf (26-Apr) : Great idea imo
    dfosterf (26-Apr) : 1st round to 7 minutes with one extension
    dfosterf (26-Apr) : NFL comissioner wants to shorten the 2st
    Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : @jalenreagors They’re discussing if Sheduer can go back to college on NFL Network LMFAOOOOO
    beast (26-Apr) : Great point Martha
    beast (26-Apr) : Buddy Ryan used to say if a candy bar goes missing, there are two to blame, Rex and Rob 🤪 jk 😁
    Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Bum Phillips used to say there are two ways to get better. Get better players or get players to play better. We have a new DL coach
    Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Yes. Look at the losses last year. They can win.
    beast (26-Apr) : Can Packers win with their current DL?
    bboystyle (26-Apr) : waiting for a pass rusher.
    dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes between picks in the 3rd
    dfosterf (25-Apr) : 3rd. Hate this phone
    dfosterf (25-Apr) : 4rd
    dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes in the 4
    dfosterf (25-Apr) : 7 minutes between picks in the 2nd round
    Martha Careful (25-Apr) : Sorry to bitch, but the headline writers in that section absolutely mislead, or don't know how to read. It is maddening
    Martha Careful (25-Apr) : No thanks. Not a dependable guy to be in the right place and run the right route. Dumb as a box of rocks.
    Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : Losing 2nd round pick for a one year rental, not ideal. Especially a headcase.
    TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Pickens for Jaire may be interesting. Definitely not sure we want Pickens long term.
    dfosterf (25-Apr) : No.Absolutely not
    Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : NO NO NO NO NO NO!!1 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
    dhazer (25-Apr) : scenario: Our main prospects are off the board when our pick comes around, do we just throw a 2nd round pick at Pittsburgh for Pickens
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2024 Packers Schedule
    Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
    Eagles
    Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
    COLTS
    Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
    Titans
    Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
    Rams
    Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
    CARDINALS
    Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
    TEXANS
    Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Jaguars
    Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
    Bears
    Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
    49ERS
    Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
    DOLPHINS
    Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
    Seahawks
    Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
    SAINTS
    Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
    Vikings
    Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
    BEARS
    Recent Topics
    7h / Packers Draft Threads / Mucky Tundra

    8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    10h / Around The NFL / bboystyle

    11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    11h / Packers Draft Threads / Mucky Tundra

    13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    27-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    27-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    27-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    27-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    27-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    27-Apr / Packers Draft Threads / wpr

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.