Zero2Cool
15 years ago
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Nick Collins isn't big on trivia contests, but the Green Bay Packer safety was quick on the draw last week.

Collins was asked how many of Ted Thompson's 51 draft picks have played in a Pro Bowl. Interestingly, Collins reacted with the same speed he pursues flying footballs.

"One," Collins said with a smirk. "Me. I'm not sure what else to say about that."

How about this:

Since Thompson was hired in January 2005 as the general manager, his philosophy has been to build a winning organization through the draft and by resigning his own players.

For the most part, Thompson has stayed in the shallow end of the pool when it comes to free agency and trades.

That philosophy certainly can work if your drafts are among football's finest year in and year out. But a major reason the Packers are 4-4 this season and just 35-37 during Thompson's tenure is his drafting has been nothing more than mediocre.

Thompson has conducted Green Bay's last five drafts, and here are the results:

Thompson has selected 51 players.

Thirty four of Thompson's picks are still either on the roster or the practice squad (66.7%)

Ten of Thompson's picks are currently starters (19.1%).

And as Collins stated, he's the only Thompson draft pick to have played in a Pro Bowl (2.0%).

Compared to some other general managers around the league, Thompson's draft record isn't bad. The problem is, it isn't special either.

And considering Thompson's apathy toward free agency and trades, he needs to hit home runs in the draft.

Had Thompson's draft record been better, the Packers might be better than 10-14 since Brett Favre was traded last summer.

Thompson didn't return phone calls for this story, but in April he said: "The draft is the biggest way you build a team, and I think it's the best way to build a team for the long run, because you have a draft every year, and you can work at it that way. . . .

"I think the draft is very important, and it's important whether you're active in free agency or not active in free agency. It's an investment in the future of your team."

That may be, but Thompson has failed on a surprising number of his draft picks. And it's a major reason the Packers continue to struggle on the offensive line and special teams.

Of Green Bay's 22 preferred offensive and defensive starters and its two kickers, five were brought in by Mike Sherman and three still belong to Ron Wolf.

Sherman was Green Bay's general manager from 2002-'04, and Wolf ran 10 drafts between 1992-2001.

Thompson has found 10 starters via the draft, a list that includes quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Collins in 2005; linebacker A.J. Hawk, guard Daryn Colledge, wideout Greg Jennings, center Jason Spitz, and defensive end Johnny Jolly in 2006; kicker Mason Crosby in 2007; guard Josh Sitton in 2008; and linebacker Clay Matthews in 2009.

Thompson's other six starters came from a variety of avenues. He signed nose tackle Ryan Pickett and cornerback Charles Woodson in free agency, traded for running back Ryan Grant, and signed street free agents in safety Atari Bigby, fullback John Kuhn and punter Jeremy Kapinos.

As Green Bay's general manager from 1991-2001, Wolf set the bar extremely high. He led the Packers to their only Super Bowl title in the last 42 years, and it didn't him long to turn around one of the worst franchises in football.

By the end of his fifth year on the job, Wolf had been to the playoffs four times, won a Super Bowl and played in two NFC Championship Games. Right now, Thompson has one playoff appearance in four seasons and faces long odds to reach the postseason this year.

While it might be unfair to compare Thompson to Wolf, today's fan base demands the best from the general manager and the entire organization. When examining the first five drafts of the two men, Thompson doesn't hold a candle to Wolf.

Wolf drafted 48 players during his first five years in Green Bay. By the end of Year 5, just 21 of those players remained (43.8%), meaning Wolf made quick decisions whether someone could play or not, and if they couldn't, he simply moved on.

Thirteen of Wolf's draft picks were starters (27.1%) on the 1996 Super Bowl championship team, and Mark Chmura was the lone player that had gone to a Pro Bowl.

But remarkably, nine players that Wolf selected during his first five drafts eventually were named to a Pro Bowl. That list included Mark Brunell, Dorsey Levens, Antonio Freeman, William Henderson, Adam Timmerman, Marco Rivera, Travis Jervey, Mike Flanagan and Chmura.

Unless many of Thompson's young players show dramatic improvement, there won't be more than a few of his current draft picks that ever reach the Pro Bowl.

Clearly, the other thing that separated Wolf from Thompson was his aggressiveness in free agency and making trades.

Wolf pulled off the greatest trade in franchise history in landing Favre, and also swapped for safety Eugene Robinson and tight end Keith Jackson during his first five years on the job. The only players that Thompson has traded for to ever start a game in Green Bay have been Grant, running back Vernand Morency and linebacker Robert Thomas.

Wolf was also very active in free agency, landing defensive ends Reggie White and Sean Jones, defensive tackle Santana Dotson and return ace Desmond Howard. Of Thompson's 10 free-agent signings, only Woodson and Pickett would be labeled difference makers.

The draft has always been Thompson's bread and butter, though. And had many of them turned out better, the Packers wouldn't be in their current predicament.

"I think we have done OK," Thompson said of his drafting back in April. "Again, this is not an exact science and it's people trying to predict the future of another person, but I think we have added a lot of core value to our team. I think we are pretty solid."

That can be debated.


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Stevetarded
15 years ago
Using the Pro Bowls as an argument kind of ruins this whole thing.
blank
djcubez
15 years ago

Using the Pro Bowls as an argument kind of ruins this whole thing.

"Stevetarded" wrote:


Great point. As the article stated many of Wolf's players didn't make the pro bowl until after they won the Super Bowl and one of them wasn't even on the team when he did (Mark Brunell). Plus Greg Jennings and Aaron Rodgers have both put up pro bowl number statistically but were overshadowed by others in the NFC. That in itself makes his comparison of pro bowl players a stupid argument.

However, I do agree with his assessment that since Ted Thompson builds through the draft he has to hit home runs instead of just having "good" drafts. I disagree that his drafts have been mediocre, they have been pretty good compared to most other teams. But since we miss the impact free agents can have we need to have spectacular drafts.
porky88
15 years ago
Yeah the Pro Bowl isn't exactly a stellar arguement. I would argue that Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings are on the same level of several Pro Bowl players over the last two or three years.

I also like what I've seen from Clay Matthews and I think B.J. Raji possess a lot of talent. Still, the article may not make a great point, but it definitely allows me to point something out.

Wolf made trades and free agent signings and might be a reason why Thompson keeps more picks. Actually it clearly is and that's hurting the team. GB has filled out their depth with late-round picks. Thompson has now made one nice trade and three good free agent signings over five seasons. That's pathetic. Thompson's drafts are not the problem like the article is implying, but his stubbornness and inability to use all his resources are in fact a huge problem.

For example....

Thompson goes out and signs Igor Olshansky and that opens the door for Thompson to draft Michael Oher instead of B.J. Raji. Not that I don't like Raji, and I think he'll be solid someday, but Oher makes the team better now and is also a great left tackle of the future IMO. Something I was wrong about leading up to the draft for the record.

All of a sudden, GB fixes two positions by making one move. Kevin Burnett was another name mentioned and say GB goes out and signs him. That opens the door for Thompson to deal Desmond Bishop, A.J. Hawk, or Nick Barnett. Perhaps he picks up a safety or backup offensive lineman or a couple of picks, but it certainly creates more in the long run for the Packers.

Both those players are starters on their current teams right now.
djcubez
15 years ago

Yeah the Pro Bowl isn't exactly a stellar arguement. I would argue that Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings are on the same level of several Pro Bowl players over the last two or three years.

I also like what I've seen from Clay Matthews and I think B.J. Raji possess a lot of talent. Still, the article may not make a great point, but it definitely allows me to point something out.

Wolf made trades and free agent signings and might be a reason why Thompson keeps more picks. Actually it clearly is and that's hurting the team. GB has filled out their depth with late-round picks. Thompson has now made one nice trade and three good free agent signings over five seasons. That's pathetic. Thompson's drafts are not the problem like the article is implying, but his stubbornness and inability to use all his resources are in fact a huge problem.

For example....

Thompson goes out and signs Igor Olshansky and that opens the door for Thompson to draft Michael Oher instead of B.J. Raji. Not that I don't like Raji, and I think he'll be solid someday, but Oher makes the team better now and is also a great left tackle of the future IMO. Something I was wrong about leading up to the draft for the record.

All of a sudden, GB fixes two positions by making one move. Kevin Burnett was another name mentioned and say GB goes out and signs him. That opens the door for Thompson to deal Desmond Bishop, A.J. Hawk, or Nick Barnett. Perhaps he picks up a safety or backup offensive lineman or a couple of picks, but it certainly creates more in the long run for the Packers.

Both those players are starters on their current teams right now.

"porky88" wrote:


I agree. Even if his moves are just one's like Brandon Chillar, he still brings in a solid player from another avenue that fills a void. Instead Ted Thompson uses the draft to build a team through competition. In other words he picks players he feels are the most talented, inserts them into their relative position and lets them battle for the starting position instead of outrightly signing, trading for or drafting an already starting caliber player.
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
That strategy might work just fine if players were given fair chances to compete. But I think it's becoming increasingly clear that they aren't. They seem to be prioritized based on a) how long they've been with the team and b) how much they make (which is related to how high they're drafted). It makes no sense to me, for example, that Breno Giacomini, who hasn't been active all season, was kept over Jamon Meredith, who while admittedly a rookie (both were drafted in the fifth round), is now starting for another team.

Perhaps our staff needs to hold off on designating the depth chart or prospective starters and give everyone equal reps early in the offseason, regardless of experience, perceived talent, or cost.

And yes, I know that would be extremely inefficient, but perhaps it would occasionally root out a diamond in the rough.

Edit: funny how often I don't notice my typos until they show up in quotes on other people's posts.
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PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
I am no math guru, but isn't this wrong?

Ten of Thompson's picks are currently starters (19.1%).



Are there not 22 starters? That is 45.45% 24 if you count K & P still 41%

If you look at the starters overall, Ted is responsible for 14 or 15 depending on if Tauscher or Barbre is starting 63%. 16 or 17 if you count K & P 66%.

Ted is fine with the draft. Could be better. Ted needs to get a little more active in FA. Most would consider a good draft getting 2 starters, great would be 3. With 22 starters at 2.5 a year. It would take almost 9 years (8.8) to get a full set of starters from the draft. Now with FA, and injuries. The team will never get finished from the draft alone.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
rabidgopher04
15 years ago

I am no math guru, but isn't this wrong?

Ten of Thompson's picks are currently starters (19.1%).

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



Are there not 22 starters? That is 45.45% 24 if you count K & P still 41%



No, it's 10 of Thompson's 51 draft picks, not the 22 starters.

Did anyone else say "who?" when the article mentioned LB Robert Thomas?

That strategy might work just fine if players were given fair chances to compete. But I think it's becoming increasingly clear that they aren't. They seem to be prioritized based on a) how long they've been with the team and b) how much they make (which is related too how high they're drafted).

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Definitely seems to be the case. I'd like to see them give the ball to Green a lot more and watch him break tackles than Grant fall down after half a yard. However, Grant makes the most money and it was definitely a mistake to give it to him.
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nerdmann
15 years ago

Using the Pro Bowls as an argument kind of ruins this whole thing.

"Stevetarded" wrote:




Rodgers, Jennings, Woodson, Harris, Collins, Kampman, Finley, Mathews, Raji, Jenkins, these guys could all go to the pro bowl.
Yeah, they weren't all DRAFTED by TT. Some of them were free agents and some of them just got paid by TT.
And Wolf didn't have to deal with the salary cap. More importantly, he didn't have to deal with the salary cap after Sherman had F'd it up.
I'd put Ted Thompson up against any GM in the history of the game when it comes to selecting players in the draft.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
15 years ago

Using the Pro Bowls as an argument kind of ruins this whole thing.

"djcubez" wrote:


Great point. As the article stated many of Wolf's players didn't make the pro bowl until after they won the Super Bowl and one of them wasn't even on the team when he did (Mark Brunell). Plus Greg Jennings and Aaron Rodgers have both put up pro bowl number statistically but were overshadowed by others in the NFC. That in itself makes his comparison of pro bowl players a stupid argument.

However, I do agree with his assessment that since Ted Thompson builds through the draft he has to hit home runs instead of just having "good" drafts. I disagree that his drafts have been mediocre, they have been pretty good compared to most other teams. But since we miss the impact free agents can have we need to have spectacular drafts.

"Stevetarded" wrote:




No way. Ted Thompson has stocked this team full of depth. Yeah, we're hurting on the OL right now. But remember, Mike McCarthy changed his mind last year about what type of linemen he wants. Now Ted Thompson has to start over getting different kinds of guys.
Plus, we're playing a new style of defense this year. Don't forget that.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
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Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
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