Congratulations to Ryan Grant!!

Nonstopdrivel
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

15 years ago

Whether or not Grant is running hard (and I too see him going down sometimes before he even gets touched), the fact is we almost never see him actually hit a defender. In several games last week, I saw a number of running backs put hits on would-be tacklers as they streaked down the sidelines. They created their own holes. Think of the famous play in which AP made Al Harris look like a bitch. We never see that kind of aggression out of Grant. Not only does he not hit the defenders, he seems to try as hard as possible to avoid being hit.

The scary thing is that if Grant goes down, we will have zero running game. We may well start seeing box scores with negative rushing yards.

4PackGirl
100% (Exalted)
Registered

15 years ago

#22

i think it was grant last nite who had a decent run going, saw a defender coming toward him & just ran out of bounds - i was pissed as hell!! nail the SOB & gain a few extra yards!!! other than that play, i thought he did better this game.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

It was late in the game and he was stopping the clock.

"4PackGirl" wrote:

the play i saw was before 10pm so it wasn't late in the game. musta been a different play you're talking about, zero. this was either late in the 1st half or early in the 2nd half.

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member

15 years ago

#23

"4PackGirl" wrote:

It was late in the game and he was stopping the clock.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

the play i saw was before 10pm so it wasn't late in the game. musta been a different play you're talking about, zero. this was either late in the 1st half or early in the 2nd half.

"4PackGirl" wrote:

Oh fine I'll look at the video again and find it ... :)

edit, this has to be the run then.
[video width=640 height=480]http://packershome.com/videos/2009/10.05.09.Packers.Vikings.c_EDIT0000.AVI[/video]

Are we seriously expecting RYAN GRANT to make THAT cut? C'mon now geez. lol

4PackGirl
100% (Exalted)
Registered

15 years ago

#24

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

It was late in the game and he was stopping the clock.

"4PackGirl" wrote:

the play i saw was before 10pm so it wasn't late in the game. musta been a different play you're talking about, zero. this was either late in the 1st half or early in the 2nd half.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Oh fine I'll look at the video again and find it ... :)

"4PackGirl" wrote:

lol - it's not a big deal, kev. just something iron & i noticed. i really don't care. that was the only time he pissed me off - otherwise i thought he played pretty damn good. comparatively speaking.

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member

15 years ago

#25

I don't think it's fair to ask a Ryan Grant to make that cut. Just my opinion. It would be nice to have a RB that could run at that speed and make a 45 degree cut on a dime though. Just how many backs are there like that in the NFL?

Tezzy
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

15 years ago

#26

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I agree. We as television viewers also have an unfair advantage of seeing a different angle. I'd like to see a simulation of what it looks like from the RBs eyes on those plays. Yes, there are freaks out there like AP who can do that, but they are a rare treasure and not the norm.

On top of every beard grows a man.
"The Bears are shell-shocked... and it's breaking my heart."

Timmons
50.25% (Neutral)
Registered

15 years ago

#27

I said it before and I will say it again. Ryan Grant has the worst job in the NFL... Ok, second worst, only to Aaron Rodgers.

Until our line can keep defenders out of the backfield, we ought to focus on that. RB's are not our problem.

blank

rodgehodge
50.25% (Neutral)
Registered

15 years ago

#28

That's alright if you want to use a tandem IMO in the backfield, but not for a guy getting as many touches as he is.

"Tezzy" wrote:

Grant isn't exactly getting a lot of touches. This week it was 11 carries, at 4.64 yards/carry (are we going to complain about that against the Queens daunted run D?), plus his 4 catches at 12.5 yards per. Everyone seems to cheer Grant on every time he gets a good run, only to find the actual hole in the line was created by penalty. Imagine if those holes were actually created from good blocking. I will be happy to get BJack back to compliment that production. Wynn has had his opportunities to steal touches from Grant but hasn't taken advantage of them.

I disagree with a lot of people about him not fighting for yards or falling to easy, I see the complete opposite. Seems to me lots of people still have a hangover from Grant last year.

"porky88" wrote:

I completely agree with this. McCarthy has a nasty habit of abandoning the run if we're trailing at the half, then bringing it back when we're getting stomped. People are wishing he would run over guys like AP does, but i think there are probably 30 other nfl teams that are wishing that same thing. I saw a lot of promise from Grant on Monday night. If McCarthy would have given him more touches we might have even been able to run some successful play action passes and given Rodgers another second to make a play.

BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.

4PackGirl
100% (Exalted)
Registered

15 years ago

#29

ok, i can't see the vid - all i said was "nail the SOB for extra yards".
i never said anything about making a 45 degree cut.
he's paid to take those kinds of hits.
this IS the nfl, correct?

i know now it'll be "it's easy for you to say, he'll risk injury doing that, blah blah blah" - it's a violent sport. they know that when they ink million dollar deals.

IronMan
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#30

"4PackGirl" wrote:

Try this link:

http://packershome.com/videos/2009/10.05.09.Packers.Vikings.c_EDIT0000.AVI

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member

15 years ago

#31

"4PackGirl" wrote:

He's Ryan Grant, not Barry Sanders, lol.

Grants to the outside, sees a defender, speeds up, tries to stiff arm the guy and he goes low at Grant's legs and stumbles out of bounds.

I've watched it about 7 times now and I just don't think he has the balance or center of gravity to make a cut like that while off balance. Not many in the NFL could. Grant did turn it up field a lil bit after contact, but just ran out of real estate.

Now, if you want to say he should have ran straight at the guy, well, then the argument would be why didn't he bounce to the outside where it was open?

I just see it differently that is all. The best thing he could have done was drop his hips an lean to the right and try to gain more yards, but again, off balance that's not the easiest thing to do.

djcubez
65.25% (Friendly)
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#32

He's Ryan Grant, not Barry Sanders, lol.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

So why not get a guy more like Barry Sanders and less like Ryan Grant? Look we opened up big holes for guys like Verrand Morrency, Samkon Gado, DeShawn Wynn and gave them all big games, why do we decide to give a guy who we picked up as a UFA a big contract because he did the same as the three guys before him, he just stayed healthy while doing it? Grant is not an NFL-caliber starting RB and apparently a lot of people don't agree with me, which is fine.

Zero you ask how many guys exist that can make plays on their own out of nothing. All I say is look to the successful running teams in the league, not only do they usually have one guy like that, but a second guy that can come in and switch up the pace with his running style. Grant is fine for a shared carry situation because he has his own style, but his style is just running straight forward. Have you seen the pitches we run to him? It's great for the ZBS, run to the side, make one cut and go north-south but we've already learned the ZBS doesn't work with our line, so why do we have a back whose only running strength is in that system?

I guess I may have just conceded my point a bit by pointing out the o-line but I'm saying backs like you've mentioned do exist, we just have made no effort in getting them. I so wish we could have kept Sutton, I think he would have been a great boost to our offense. Our dump-off pass game would look a lot better with a speedy guy that can slash instead of a guy like Grant who gets the ball and just runs straight.

djcubez
65.25% (Friendly)
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#33

[youtube]zi4NTC8S8nE[/youtube]
Here's a highlight video all from '07. Look at his style, he runs STRAIGHT. He makes a few moves on some of the plays but it's basically all running straight through holes. We have no holes now so he's completely ineffective as a RB. Now your point about the OL not making holes makes sense but if you give me the ball I can run through a damn hole. A RB has GOT TO make plays on his own. He's a skill player, that's his job. I'm not saying he has to do it all the time but making a few plays a game is what starting RB's do in the NFL.

[youtube]3-JdoWHgVEk[/youtube]
Now here's a highlight video with some highlights fro m 2008. Notice he runs slower, straighter and tends to fall down. Sure, blame it on the hamstring but don't tell me you think he looks more like the '07 Grant--he doesn't. I mean look at the run against the Vikings around :30 seconds. At the end of the run he just goes right into the safety and falls over. At 1:03 in the same video he does the same thing running right into a Bears safety. I mean both of those runs could have been TD's if he made a move.

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member

15 years ago

#34

He's Ryan Grant, not Barry Sanders, lol.

"djcubez" wrote:

So why not get a guy more like Barry Sanders and less like Ryan Grant?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

LoL, you and about two dozen GM's are looking for the same thing. 🙂

djcubez
65.25% (Friendly)
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#35

He's Ryan Grant, not Barry Sanders, lol.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

So why not get a guy more like Barry Sanders and less like Ryan Grant?

"djcubez" wrote:

LoL, you and about two dozen GM's are looking for the same thing. :)

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I don't know, I think a lot of teams are looking for players that are more like Barry Sanders and less like their starting RB which is a lot smaller of a gap than Barry Sanders and Ryan Grant. Plus I'd appreciate you'd respond to my entire post and not the first thing I wrote, it makes a lot more sense after I explain how Ryan Grant isn't a starting caliber RB 😉

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member

15 years ago

#36

lol sorry bud trying to do 52 things at once here... I'll make it a point to go through it though for sure.

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member

15 years ago

#37

Here's a highlight video all from '07. Look at his style, he runs STRAIGHT. He makes a few moves on some of the plays but it's basically all running straight through holes. We have no holes now so he's completely ineffective as a RB. Now your point about the OL not making holes makes sense but if you give me the ball I can run through a damn hole. A RB has GOT TO make plays on his own. He's a skill player, that's his job. I'm not saying he has to do it all the time but making a few plays a game is what starting RB's do in the NFL.

Now here's a highlight video with some highlights fro m 2008. Notice he runs slower, straighter and tends to fall down. Sure, blame it on the hamstring but don't tell me you think he looks more like the '07 Grant--he doesn't. I mean look at the run against the Vikings around :30 seconds. At the end of the run he just goes right into the safety and falls over. At 1:03 in the same video he does the same thing running right into a Bears safety. I mean both of those runs could have been TD's if he made a move.

"djcubez" wrote:

I disagree that you'd be able to run through the hole. You have to have speed to get to the hole and get out of the hole. It's not as easy as you are implying. Unless you can hump it at a sub 4.6 in the 40, I doubt you could. Nothing personal.

He's Ryan Grant, not Barry Sanders, lol.

"djcubez" wrote:

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

To my knowledge Grant has a heavy incentive based contract, not really a big one. Gado couldn't handle the zone blocking scheme that was implemented during his stay here, hence why he was sent away. Morency couldn't stay healthy and same thing with Wynn. Of the RB's we have, I think Wynn is the most talented and although he's had a chance, I'd like to see him get some more touches.

I know backs who can make more out of nothing are out there. But there on other teams already. The best chance we have at getting a good RB would be to pluck one from Dallas. Which, will not happen.

cheeseheads123
100% (Exalted)
Member

15 years ago

#38

Wow Grant ran like a mad man in 07. He looked like a totally different grant then what we see now. But if you watch that video just look at the holes he had.

Zero2Cool
100% (Exalted)
Elite Member

15 years ago

#39

Nice videos. Although any player is going to appear faster when your video is 17 frames per second compared to a video of 29.97 frames per second.

djcubez
65.25% (Friendly)
Senior Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#40

Nice videos. Although any player is going to appear faster when your video is 17 frames per second compared to a video of 29.97 frames per second.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

As someone who deals with video on a daily basis this is an excellent and very valid point but that's not what I was basing his speed on. His explosiveness is more of what I referring to. He's lost a lot of it and now that he doesn't have the benefit of a good line he's kind of rendered useless unlike a gadget-style back which we clearly are lacking. My concern is mostly in the depth at the RB position and the fact that we lack a compliment to Grant in the run game. I still stand by the fact that Grant is not a starting-caliber back but it doesn't mean he's not successful and can't get the job done. I feel that he would be better in a platoon situation and the fact that we only have 2 RB's at our disposal is a concern. Yes, Jackson can change that when he's healthy, which is actually a problem considering his history with GB.

LOL I disagree with myself too because that was an excessive comparison. My point is most NFL RB's have played enough football to know how to properly recognize an opening and run through it. A good RB can do much more than that and all I'm saying is Ryan Grant hasn't shown that he's capable of that type of big-play ability.

I'm just saying has Grant really proven he's a starting caliber RB--he's beat out RB's that put up the same kind of production who were no where near the NFL level either--Morrency hasn't done anything in the NFL, Gado was a Nigerian Doctor we got lucky with and hasn't done anything since then as well. Compare that to Grant who sat at third on a Notre Dame depth chart throughout college and was cut by the Giants. We haven't really had a chance to make a decent comparison because every since Grant signed that contract he's basically been handed the starting job. Maybe if we had kept Sutton we could see whether or not Grant is as bad or as good as we think he is. My issue also wasn't with the money given to him because Ted Thompson knows how to do contracts, it's just that we were ready to hand the job to a one-year wonder that came out of literally nowhere without any proven history of success (not even in college).

I know backs who can make more out of nothing are out there. But there on other teams already. The best chance we have at getting a good RB would be to pluck one from Dallas. Which, will not happen.

There's not much we can do about it now, I agree. We could try and finagle a trade with a team but that would cost us plenty and the money is already given to Grant meaning we won't make that move. That's kind of where my issue with Grant is--he hasn't looked that great after the contract and because we signed him to the deal we haven't been able to see what could have been at the RB position.

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