Okay, Noahs Ark?· Page 2

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

I understand the faith in the Bible, but there's so many variations of what is in the Bible. How do you know which is most accurate? And wasn't the Bible written by man? How do we know it wasn't messed up?

I know it may seem nitpicky and such, but maybe it was true when someone said I am just taking the easy way out. Meaning, that since I believe in a higher power, but have not instilled blind faith in a book that I'm not doing what's necessary.

I'm the kind of person that needs see things and understand things to believe in them. Another reason I prefer older cars, because I can SEE exactly what is going on and understand it. Maybe that means I have trust issues? I dunno. I just know the more I read up and hear about how things came about, the more skeptical I become. I think, okay here we go, this is going to make sense, this is will be what it takes. Then, there's holes all over like Swiss Cheese.

Obviously we had to come from somewhere. Birds or God's hand, whichever, we are here. There's more evidence supporting evolution than "let there be man, woman". One question about that is, if we all came from Adam and Eve, how did we avoid the incestrial deformities that occur today over all those years?

I dunno ... it seems like a dog chasing his tail at times.

djcubez
Senior Member

15 years ago

#12

I'm not trying to offend any religious people here but the Christan God doesn't really have a good moral system...

The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

Yea I understand the bible is meant to be "interpreted" but seriously, the bible is the most heinous book I've ever read, talk about banned literature--I've never read anything with more sex, rape, murder, war and destruction than the bible and a lot of it is at God's own will.

I mean seriously look at these excerpts from the bible:

"Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses." (Ezekiel 23: 19-21)

"and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions." (Ezekiel 23: 21, NRSV)

"Your stature is like a palm tree, and your breasts are like its clusters. I said, 'I will climb the palm tree. I will take hold of its fruit stalks.' Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine and the fragrance of your breath like apples." Song of Solomon 7:7-8

"And Lot went up to Zoar, and stayed in the mountains, and his two daughters with him. Then the firstborn said to the younger, 'Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of the earth. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve our family through our father.' Genesis 19:30-36

Is that not pornographic in nature? There's even incest for crying out loud! And what's the purpose? To instill a perverted sense of fear in humanity?

TheEngineer
Registered

15 years ago

#13

I thought about writing a lengthy retort on how there exists several fallacies with the concept of Noah's Ark from my personal beliefs but honestly, people are free to believe what they wish. I see it as a poignant moralistic story and nothing more. Others may choose to take it literally. In the end the same message is carried across, so the Bible still does its job.

But I certainly won't be scouring the mountains for petrified wood. Unless I could make a decent profit from it.

blank

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#14

The question of origins doesn't interest me much. When I'm feeding a sample of some chemical into the flame atomic absorption spectrometer, it doesn't much matter whether the world came about through the fiat of God or through some spontaneous Big Bang.

Wade
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#15

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I don't understand the opposition to blind faith. Unless one is objecting to redundancy, I suppose.

By defintion, faith must be blind. Whether one is talking small-f faith (like the economist who has faith in his assumptions of rationality, or the scientist who has faith that the scientific method reveals objective truth), or large-F faith (like the Christian who believes that the Bible is the Word of God), faith fills in the gaps. None of us can take everything back to first principles, and even if we did, those "first principles" we went back to would require us to take a stance of faith.

A stance we might justify by pointing to this or that piece of evidence, but in the end any piece of evidence is just a sample. And to reason from a sample is to have faith that the sample is representative. You simply cannot take faith, blind faith, out of the equation.

You can only choose that which you have faith in.

Which brings me to Zero's skepticism about the Bible. We who read the Bible come to it as human beings who must take some things on faith. If we believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing God, if we believe that man is neither all-powerful nor all-knowing, then might not the "puzzles and contradictions" of the Bible be merely a reflection of our human limitations?

Perhaps the reason there are so many different translations of the Bible is that God wishes his Word to speak to everyone. And just as some will understand better if it is translated from Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic into English or French or Japanese, others will understand better if it is the NIV or the Good News Version instead of the King James or the Jerusalem.

Not because one version is "more historically accurate" or "more true to the original scrolls", but because God can and will speak to each of us as we need to be spoken to.

I don't profess to understand all of the old Testament. And I've said on more than one occasion I find it hard to believe that God is as obsessed with how we use the dangly bits and holes in our anatomy as we are.

I do however believe that I must strive above all to follow His Great Commandment. That I ought not to commit idolatry (that's where most of the preaching against misuse of the dangly bits really ought to be focused, btw). And that one of the hardest parts of my own idolatry to eradicate is my idolatry of my own judgment. The idolatry of my ability to reason my way to the consistency of life, the universe, and everything.

In my view, when I read the Bible and see contradiction or worse, it's not time to interpose my scholarly or ideological or moral judgment on the Bible (much less on God). It's time to ask "what am I missing, God?" If as a layman I would not dare to claim that I understood physics better than Einstein or Feynmann, if as a user of bridges, I would not dare to claim that I understand engineering better than those who build bridges, why should I expect to be able to claim I know the meaning of God's Word better than God?

I know only that I believe. And believing, that I must listen. And when I'm confused, listen more.

Blindly.

Because He says so. And because there are no exceptions to "with all my heart and all my mind and all my soul" for "when this makes no sense to my feeble mind, oh Lord."

This, too, I believe.

Blindly.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Cheesey
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#16

First, as far as "incest". Remember, mankind was PERFECT when God made us. So when Adam and Eve sinned, their bodies first started to break down. Thats why they lived for hundreds of years, there wasn't the disease or imperfections that have come over time. Thus, there was not the gross imperfections that you see now in incestuous relationships.

Think about this for a second. We are copies of copies of copies, and so on, for thousands of years. Yet we still are living, breathing creatures.
Try taking a piece of paper that you typed, take it to a copy machine, and make a copy. Then use the copy and copy it, Keep doing that and see how few times it takes before you can't even READ the print. Yet look at how man is still here.

Zero, the Bible was inspired by God. It says in the Bible that anyone that changes it's meaning will be held responsible for doing that. All you can do is trust Him, and let Him worry about the results.

Dcube.....look at the things you wrote, then ask yourself this question: If mankind would have obeyed what God said in all those, what you called "immoral" passeges in the Bible, would we be better off today?
Would we have the moral decay, and the results with disease if man would have obeyed God? Gay sex, sex before marriage, .....how many people have died from sexually transmitted diseases? These would have been avoided if men and women learned some self control.
How about adultry? You think it's wrong for God to expect people that make a VOW before Him to ONLY have sex with their mate, to hold them to that?
God put down some laws, that IF they were obeyed, mankind would flourish.
But like in today's world, people want to do WHATEVER they want, with no consequences.
Fact is, there ARE consequences to everything you do.

As far as the Bible contradicting itself, it doesn't. You can take verses out of context, and they might look contradictive. But if you compare it with other scripture, you see that it doesn't contradict at all.

God doesn't want evil to happen to people. But Satan does. And lets face it, alot of what happens to us is our own fault, because of choices we make.
Too many people want to blame God for that.

If you choose not to believe the Bible, you will take things like His judgement for OUR actions as Him being cruel. Of course thats because we don't want to take any guilt for what we do.
"If it feels good, do it" has been man's way for a LONG time.

djcubez
Senior Member

15 years ago

#17

"Cheesey" wrote:

Cheesey I have so much respect for you you wouldn't believe it. A little background:

I have gone through my life never knowing what to believe; my dad's agnostic and my mother a pagan, although she's not "crazy" as some would have you believe. I was sent to a Catholic High School and have only attended church once. Through all the people I've met and religions I have experienced I can never choose to believe in one, because what makes that one the right one?

So in the end, I've chosen that religion isn't important to me in my life, but if it is in yours I completely understand. I just don't want it to adversely affect my life in a negative fashion. Everyone is free to believe what they want and that's a beautiful thing, but there is a thing as going too far.

Cheesey, your post was smart and I completely understand where your coming from despite the fact that I may not agree with you. The fact that you did not attack me once makes me appreciate we have a forum for debate and discussion and also makes me want to apologize a bit to you as I had no intention of slandering your beliefs.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#18

Alan, thank you for taking the time to respond to this. I know I might come off as stubborn or pig headed or what not, but I just have a lot of questions and I know, you said one shouldn't question it, but unfortunately, it's my nature, how I was brought up.

You said that man was perfect with Adam and Eve. Okay. Then God wiped them all out sparing Noah's family. At that time God decreased longevity of life by 90% or so. With that being said, we are just getting weaker and weaker as the generations go on? But science has proven that is not true and that in fact we are getting bigger, stronger and faster as well more healthy.

You know what, what's God's number? I'm going to text him. 🙂

Cheesey
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#19

Dcubez, your posts are well thought out, and believe me, i understand where you are coming from too!
I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. So i know what organized "religion" can do to you, how it can mess you up. I'm NOT trying to pick on JW's, just trying to show how following a religion instead of God's word can mess you up. After i got out of that, and read the Bible, instead of what the JW's SAID the Bible said, i saw how they took things out of context, thus destroying what the TRUE meaning was. Anyone here that is involved with the JW's that wants me to give them details, i will be more then happy to do so through PM's.
Same with the Catholic religion. I can show you where they do things in their religion that go against what the Bible says.
Fact is, all religions twist things to fit what they want to believe. Thats why in the end, i use the Bible as the measuring stick.
Dcubez.....all i want for you, and anyone else in here, is to be able to feel the same lack of fear that i have as far as death, and where you spend eternity. Last February, as i was being wheeled into the operating room, i had absolutely no fear if i was going to die during the operation. I knew that if i did die, i was going to go to Heaven. The only reason i had to stay here, was to be here for my wife. I want everyone to feel that way. To not fear death.
Also.....if i am wrong, and there is nothing after death, what have i lost? By putting my faith in God, wanting to please Him, i try hard not to do wrong things. Of course i'm not perfect, far from it in fact. But i have a conscience and try to fix what i do wrong.
It gives guidelines to my life that many people today don't have. So much of this world is an attitude of "me me me!!!" Thats why we have the high murder rate we see. If you "diss" me, i'll just kill you. Thats the attitude we see too much.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#20

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

No Kevin! You are NOT stubborn or pig headed! You have questions that you want answers too. I understand that! In the end, there is no way our small minds can fully grasp all that God has done. Someday, we WILL see.

And truth is, we are getting weaker and weaker. Not bigger and stronger. Yes, we come up with thousands of drugs to try to stop the disintigration of our bodies, but that does not mean we are getting bigger or stronger. Just that we are trying hard to fight off death.
Close to the garden of Eden, man lived over 900 years. Our puny 100 years we live now is nothing compared to back then. There wasn't the disease back then that there is now, or the chemicals that get into our bodies every day just by breathing or eatting.
Before the flood, it didn't rain. There was a protective "canopy" over the Earth. Kind of like a "greenhouse" affect. Thats another reason why the people laughed at Noah when he told them it was going to flood. The Bible says that the water came from above AND from inside the Earth. The Earth's crust cracked, and underground water came up.
Look at the wolly Mammoths they have found frozen solid in the Arctic. They are preserved, some with grass still in their mouths! And when they thaw them, they find green grass in their stomachs, and their flesh is fresh as if they had just died. What happend that changed what was a grassy, tree full land, into a frozen wasteland in the matter of moments? Ice so deep, that elephant like animals are found frozen solid, in the standing position with food still in their mouths? A bloated dead animal that drowns will float to the surface of the water. These animals didn't. They froze too fast to even bloat up and float.
Think of how fast an animal of that size would have to freeze in order for it not to decay! The Earth opened up, and the water gushed up. I believe this whole catastrophe caused the Earth to tilt on it's axis, and threw the Arctic into a deep freeze.
I saw this on National Geographic, so it's not something i just pulled out of thin air. The "scientists" can't figure out how this happened. They TRY to make up stuff, because truth is, if they allowed the EASY explanation, which i just gave, it would mess up their whole "evolution" and "millions of years" story.
Your questions are valid Kevin. Some, i just can't answer. I can only give my own expierience.
God says to come in "childlike faith". To me, that means like when you explain something to a child, and they trust you, they believe you without question, even if they don't fully understand it.
I use this computer every day, yet if you asked me to explain how it works, i would have NO idea how to answer you. But i know it works, reguardless of my ability to explain it to anyone.

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Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Oh? It wasn't on the injury report. That sucks, but it's what is best.

packerfanoutwest (26-Nov) : Doubs is out due to concussion

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beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back

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Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch

Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk

TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble

Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.

packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets

beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over

packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal

packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites

Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?

packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL

Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?

Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”

beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout

beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL

Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.

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beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach

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beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections

Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources

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Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.

packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks

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Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.

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