IronMan
15 years ago
:lurk:
4PackGirl
15 years ago
by far, one of the greatest discussions we've had on this board! amazing!
wils0646
15 years ago

And where ddi the water come from? There was a water canopy above the earth that was let loose. That, and like i said, the water under the earth's crust came up.
Combine the 2, and you have a worldwide flood.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Sorry Alan, but that would be physically impossible. A water canopy in the atmosphere could not exist.

Plus it caused the mountains to rise up. Just check with the scientists. They have found fossilized giant clams on top of mountains all over the world.



The mountains may have not been formed when the animal species died. Plate tectonics likely formed the mountains after death.

How did they get up there? They sure didn't walk! They are there because at one time, those mountains were at one time under water. The world wide catastrophe caused an uproar on the entire earth.
The flood is what made the Grand Canyon. It was NOT the little Colorado river that runs through it now, as they try to say it did.



That goes completely against any type of earth science. There's no scientific discipline that would agree with that theory. It's impossible.

Look at what happened when Mount Saint Helens erupted. It made a small version of the Grand Canyon in a few days. Now consider if that kind of eruption happened all over the world! The amont of destruction, and the way it would change the way the earht looks. That is what happened.



http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH581_1.html 

Response:

1. The sediments on Mount St. Helens were unconsolidated volcanic ash, which is easily eroded. The Grand Canyon was carved into harder materials, including well-consolidated sandstone and limestone, hard metamorphosed sediments (the Vishnu schist), plus a touch of relatively recent basalt.

2. The walls of the Mount St. Helens canyon slope 45 degrees. The walls of the Grand Canyon are vertical in places.

3. The canyon was not entirely formed suddenly. The canyon along Toutle River has a river continuously contributing to its formation. Another canyon also cited as evidence of catastrophic erosion is Engineer's Canyon, which was formed via water pumped out of Spirit Lake over several days by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

4. The streams flowing down Mount St. Helens flow at a steeper grade than the Colorado River does, allowing greater erosion.

5. The Grand Canyon (and canyons further up and down the Colorado River) is more than 100,000 times larger than the canyon on Mount St. Helens. The two are not really comparable.



I don't mind religion really at all, but young earth creationism is very factually and scientifically inaccurate. Alan, you should check out the talkorigins website.
The Pack Will Be Back.
Cheesey
15 years ago
I have checked out many "origins" sites. And all of them are based on "theories", not one of them has any fact. You have to believe what they say by FAITH alone. There is no PROOF of anything they say.
Can i prove that the way it all happened is the way the Bible says? Nope....anymore then evolution can be proven. BOTH have to be believed by faith. If you want to put your faith in nothing, that everything happened by some crazy chance, that all the highly specialized cells like those in your eyes, or any other ones just happened by some freakish chance, go ahead and believe that. I know my computer was made by someone with intellegience, it didn't just assemble it's self. Even though i never met the people that made these parts and put them together, i believe they exist.
I don't think my computer was just a bunch of parts on a table that jumped together all by themselves. I guess i could say it's POSSIBLE it happened that way, but i kind of doubt it.
But if someone wants to believe that all the animals, people, bugs, plant life, and so on all came from ONE cell "millions of years ago" by some goofy chance, be my guest.
We can go round and round on this, and no one can prove what they believe.
Like i said, giant fossilized clams on top of mountains. You can come up with theories how they got there, but i still think my Biblical "theory" makes the most sense.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
15 years ago
As far as canyon size.....not comparable? How about taking the Mount Saint Helens eruption, and multiplying it several hundred times. You think that wouldn't multiply the size of the canyon it produced?
It amazes me how someone can't grasp that possibility. Of course you won't grasp it if it flies in the face of what you think and choose to believe happened. The Colorado River made the Grand Canyon? That little trickle of water down in the very bottom did all THAT? But my "theory" is goofy?
How about the Colorado River is following a natural down hill path, as water does?
Oh.....how did that river some how go UPHILL to dig out the areas above it?
Just wondered.

As far as kangaroos........there are species of animals that are located in areas that arn't located in other areas. If the island of Australia came up where it did after the flood, and that's where the kangaroos were, and they can't swim across the ocean, i guess that says why they are where they are.
I don't know if and fossilized kangaroo type has been found in other areas. Some animals thrive in one area, and not in another. I haven't seen any elephants walking around Wisconsin recently. But i know they have found fossilized mammoth remains.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
15 years ago
Oh....and the Grand Canyon has walls that are vertical in places......yeah.......because it happened a long time ago, and erosion still happens. Mount Saint Helens was what, 28 years ago? Call me in a few thousand years and see what it looks like.
Why are obvious things like this overlooked? If you actually think yourself, and not just follow what the scientists tell you to see, you can reason out things like this pretty easily.
I used Mount Saint Helens eruption as an example.
The flood was a MUCH grander scale.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
15 years ago
Quote::
How did they get up there? They sure didn't walk! They are there because at one time, those mountains were at one time under water. The world wide catastrophe caused an uproar on the entire earth.
The flood is what made the Grand Canyon. It was NOT the little Colorado river that runs through it now, as they try to say it did.

And you said:

That goes completely against any type of earth science. There's no scientific discipline that would agree with that theory. It's impossible.


Oh....so....because some scientist, with finite brain power saws "Thats impossible! It can't happen!" it didn't happen?
So.....how did those clams get up there then? Just wondered.........
You choose to put your blind faith in "MAN". Didn't man say just over 100 years ago it was impossible for man to ever fly??? "It can't happen! Man flying goes against scientific discipline! It's IMPOSSIBLE!!!"
Or how about TV? "Thats impossible!!!"
A telephone you carry around in your hand that you can talk to anyone in the world that has one too? "That flies in the face of science!!!"
Or a COMPUTER in almost every home that fits on a small table?
"That will NEVER happen! Are you crazy???"

Yup.....science rules!
It wasn't that long ago that "science" said that the human appendix was a useless left over organ from our "evolution". It served NO purpose. So it was used as proof of evolution of humans. I remember that being taught in school when i was a kid.
Now, "science" has found out it is in fact part of our immune system. Yes, you can live without it, but that doesn't mean it had no purpose.
People can live without eyesight, without hearing, without arms or legs......does that mean those parts had no purpose? But because all knowing MAN thought the appendix had no use, it MUST be true! (Until they proved to themselves otherwise that is)
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
15 years ago

Alan, where did you learn this stuff from? I've never read this before. I'm not saying its untrue, just wanting to find the source myself.

The more I think about it, the more I can understand the flood. I do struggle with why God would murder so many innocent people. There's no way EVERY single person deserved to die.

Maybe the water from the existing oceans rose over all the land and swept everyone away? Although, I heard the flood lasted 150 days. Maybe it was a bad hurricane? But then we have lakes and salt water oceans?

Alan, I know what you're saying about some things, I'd just like to know more.

I do know that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday, so he could eventually watch the Packers play.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:


Well.....i wasn't there.....but God said there were no righteous people except for Noah and his family, so i trust that was the way it was. I doubt that there were as many people on the earth as there is today.
If those people were as evil as God said, i guess they were not so "innocent". And if you read the Bible, it took a long time for the ark to be built, and Noah preached to the people the whole time. They laughed at him and ignored his pleas. They COULD have gone on the ark with him, had they accepted "salvation".
It's a small picture of the way things are today. People here about the "good news" and scoff at those that tell them. They have their multiple chances to accept, but choose themselves not to accept. So then, who in the end is at fault for their refusing salvation? Is it God? No....they made the choice. He provides salvation, as he did to all the other people in Noah's time. But each person is responsible to accept or decline God's sacrifice made for them.
It's like a bridge built across a raging river, built by God. He shows you it's there, says the ONLY way to get across safely is to cross the bridge He built, and there are some that will just refuse to do so. They will try to swim across it themselves, they will try to build a boat to cross it, and end up drowning. Then who's fault was it that they drowned? Was God a "murderer?" Or was it there own self that caused where they ended up?
He provides the bridge (Jesus) and we each choose to accept it or deny it.
It's there for ANYONE that wants to accept it. And God WANTS EVERYONE to cross it, but He made us with FREE WILL to choose what we do.
Thats about as simple as i can say it.
And i know, some still will choose not to believe it.
Like i have asid before though, if i am wrong, what have i lost? I will die and cease to exist. I won't even KNOW that i was wrong. But if i am right, forever in Heaven with God and many that i love!
UserPostedImage
TheEngineer
15 years ago


As far as kangaroos........there are species of animals that are located in areas that arn't located in other areas. If the island of Australia came up where it did after the flood, and that's where the kangaroos were, and they can't swim across the ocean, i guess that says why they are where they are.
I don't know if and fossilized kangaroo type has been found in other areas. Some animals thrive in one area, and not in another. I haven't seen any elephants walking around Wisconsin recently. But i know they have found fossilized mammoth remains.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Oh so it IS actually possible from the Bible's teachings that animals can be created at any time in the past/present? I had always assumed that everything was made during the time of Genesis and that was it, done and dusted.

Like i have asid before though, if i am wrong, what have i lost? I will die and cease to exist. I won't even KNOW that i was wrong. But if i am right, forever in Heaven with God and many that i love!

"Cheesey" wrote:



That's the most succinct, appealing argument for following a religion I've heard in a damn long time!
blank
dfosterf
15 years ago

Jesus And Moses On The Golf Course

Things are slow in Heaven one Sunday, so Moses suggests to Jesus that they go down to Earth and play a round of golf; Jesus agrees.

On the first hole, there's a long fairway with a water hazard before the green.

Standing at the championship tee, Moses points to the novice tees and says "Jesus, I think we should tee off from up there. I don't think we can make it over the water from here." Jesus replies, "I've seen Tiger Woods make his shot from here many times, and if Tiger can do it, so can I."

Jesus puts his ball down and drives it toward the green. It sails up over the fairway, out over the water, then SPLASH, it falls in the water.

Moses walks out, parts the water, retrieves Jesus' ball, and brings it back. "Jesus," Moses says, "I really think we should tee off from up there. I don't think we can make it over the water from here." Jesus insists, "I've seen Tiger make his shot from here many times, and if Tiger can do it, so can I."

Jesus again puts his ball down and drives it toward the green. It sails up over the fairway, out over the water, then SPLASH, it falls in the water. Moses walks out, parts the water, retrieves the ball, and brings it back. "Jesus," Moses says, "I really don't think we can make it over the water from here. If you shoot from back here again and your ball goes in the water, I'm not going to get it." Jesus again explains to Moses, "I've seen Tiger Woods make his shot from here many times, and if Tiger can do it, so can I."

Jesus again puts his ball down and drives it toward the green. It sails up over the fairway, out over the water, then SPLASH, it falls in the water. Moses looks at Jesus and stands at the tee, with no intention of retrieving Jesus' ball.

Jesus figures he'll have to retrieve his own ball, so he walks down the fairway to the water hazard, and proceeds to walk on the water out to the point where his ball fell in.

Moses is still back at the tee when a foursome comes through and sees Jesus walking on water. "Holy mackerel!", one of them says, "Does that guy think he's Jesus Christ or something?"

"No", Moses answers, "he thinks he's Tiger Woods."



:thumbleft:
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