Zero2Cool
16 years ago
He didn't have IT before what makes anyone think he's going to suddenly have IT now? lol ... the guy was a garbage QB.

The Packers would be more help to Vick than Vick would be to them. We just do not run the offense that is tailored to his skills.


Vick, thrown over 2500 yards, once. Threw for more 20 TD's, once. To his credit though, has not thrown more than 13 INT's in a season. That's pretty good right there and that helps a team a lot when you're not throwing 22 a season.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
Once again, Mike Vick does not "deserve" a second chance. He hasn't done anything to earn it. (Sitting in the can for a few years just starts him over at square one -- it doesn't earn him anything.) Now that he's served his time, however, he may, depending on your own worldview, be entitled to a second chance. There's a subtle but, in my opinion, very important difference between the two concepts.

If Green Bay chooses to give him that second chance and he makes our team better, so be it. I agree, treat him like a rookie and let him earn his way up the ladder.
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go.pack.go.
16 years ago
Every team except for 5 has declined interest in Michael Vick. Green Bay is one of those 5.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
As long as Vick doesn't represent a threat to his own position, I imagine Rodgers would welcome the chance to play with Vick. Imagine how much pressure a running threat like that could take off of Rodgers in the pocket. It might even increase Rodgers' own yards-per-rush stat.
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DarkaneRules
16 years ago
I will use this personal analogy based on my feelings.

You know that movie you LOVED growing up that is about to be remade. You think it is pretty cool to have remakes until it comes to that one movie that is really close to your heart. American "Pit" Bull Terriers and Staffordshires are my favorite breeds of dogs. I rescue a couple as strays and lost one to a heart condition earlier this year. I think he should get a second chance, but when it comes to my favorite football team, it just gets too close to comfort for me. I understand that I have a bias and that it comes with scrutiny of it's own, but I just could not endorse anyone coming to my favorite football team that I have knowledge of having any involvement with dog fighting.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
I must admit, however, that I find myself skeptical of any story that has a line like this:

Our insiders told us they had to swear on their first borns life not to discuss the teams interest in signing Vick.



It sounds to me too much like the ad copy from those sensationalized template sites that litter the internet. Even granting the hyperbole of the statement, if they truly swore on their firstborn's life not to reveal this information, then went ahead and revealed it anyway, they frankly deserve to be fired.

Time will tell. Internal discussions, no matter how lively, don't necessarily mean they're willing to take the big step of offering him a deal.
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obi1
16 years ago
Why the Packers?

Doesn't the NFL have reams named after ferocious dogs?
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
16 years ago
[WARNING: Long pontification coming!!]

IMNSHO there are two, and only two questions, that Ted Thompson and company need to ask re: VIck:

1. What, deep down, is the state of his character right now.
2. Does he offer more as a backup QB than Flynn or Brohm?

The second question is by far the easier. It isn't a slam dunk either way, but there are certainly arguments to me made that, even with the "time off" and the "age" question, he offers more than one (or perhaps both) of our current backups.

Unfortunately, the first question is more important, and a lot harder to answer. And, if the first question can't be answered, the second should be irrelevant.

That Vick may have convinced Roger Goodell impresses me not at all -- Goodell is a politician and image consultant. That he has apparently convinced Tony Dungy, one of the highest character guys in sport, impresses me more.

Is it enough? I dunno. Frankly, I consider dog abusers as among the worst scum on the planet, and I'm cynical enough about pro athletes and their spin machines that I find it hard to believe in the depth of Vick's repentance.

I think the "he's done his time" argument completely off base. Jail time is for an offense against the law. Law and morality are not the same. And, in my opinion, character analysis neither starts nor stops with the law. Character analysis is about the moral quality of the person.

Why should this morality stuff come into play for Thompson, et al? Because we reveal our character by who *we* associate with. If I hang out with litterers and mother-rapers on the Group W bench (obscure Arlo Guthrie reference), then that says something about *my* character. If the Packers admit people they believe to be unreformed scum to the roster in the name of wins, that says something about *their* character.

And it doesn't say something good.

If the Packers truly believe that Vick has reformed his character, that he truly repents and is striving to treat animals the way a sentient being should because he now believes that no one should treat animals the way he used to treat dogs, that's one thing. If they are inverting the order of questions 1 and 2, however, then it's another.

If the Packers think Vick has truly reformed, not by "serving his time," but by digging deep inside and working to change his character, then they should be applauded if they decide to "forgive and give another chance". Not condemned.

I know they'd be better than me. Because, as a dog person (see my avatar), I doubt I'll be able to get past Vick's old character for awhile yet.

Perhaps it is because forgiveness has to be a person-to-person thing. Can you forgive someone in the abstract? Really forgive them? Or can you only forgive them when you're close enough to them that you can truly assess the reality of their character? I can, and have, forgiven family and friends many things. (And they, ahem, have forgiven me even more and worse things.) But forgive some random guy in Atlanta who I only "know of" because he's been on ESPN a zillion times, but who I've never talked with? I'm not sure that's possible.

So where do I stand on the question? As a Christian, I'm not particularly proud of this, but I don't believe Mr. Vick just yet. But were I Ted THompson, who probably knows Tony Dungy if not Vick himself, I'd like to think I'd ask myself, do I trust Tony (or someone else who knows Vick) enough to give Vick some time. And if I did trust Tony or that someone else, I'd like to think I'd give Vick an extended opportunity to reveal his character to me.

And, if during that extended opportunity, Vick convinced me he truly was "changed", then -- and only then -- I'd start thinking about him as a possible wearer of Green and Goal according to the criterion of Question #2.

If Ted's refusal to "reject out of hand" at the news conference was because he's already "behind the scenes, over the last N months" given that opportunity to Vick, if he isn't rejecting because he's in the process of asking question #1 (or if he's already done the Dungy thing and is thinking about question #2), then Ted should be applauded.

If the "process" Ted talked about was just question#2, however, then, IMO, he should be condemned.

Not because Vick is still a scumbag. But because he, Thompson, is willing to associate with unrepentent scumbags as long as it improves the bottom line.

And, IMO, that brings Ted's character into question.

So I believe.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
16 years ago

Every team except for 5 has declined interest in Michael Vick. Green Bay is one of those 5.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



I'm willing to bet one of the teams that has 'declined' will end up signing him.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
16 years ago

Every team except for 5 has declined interest in Michael Vick. Green Bay is one of those 5.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I'm willing to bet one of the teams that has 'declined' will end up signing him.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



I'm with you, Zero2Cool.

If I had to guess, it would be one the "big public splash" owner types. The kind who tend to shrug off bad publicity as "any publicity is good publicity, especially since it keeps *me* in front of the camera". A Dan Snyder type.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Update: Rock has tried a cheese curd, promises it's not his last
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Martha Careful (2-Aug) : Congratulations Sterling Sharpe. He was terrific and I loved watching him play.
beast (2-Aug) : I believe it's technically against the CBA rules, but Jerry just calls it a simple unofficial chat... and somehow gets away with it.
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Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Oo just saw a blurb saying that Dallas negotiated directly with Parsons and not through his agent
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Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : McLaurin nor Micah going anywhere. They will get money
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : the Synder years or do they take care of one of their own?
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Do the Commanders risk losing a top WR with an emerging QB just because he's turning 30 and potentially risk damaging the rebuild from
Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Turns 30 this September, plays at a high level and Washington has some cap space I believe
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Zero2Cool (31-Jul) : CUT HIM
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : Socieltal collapse imminent
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : The West has fallen
Mucky Tundra (31-Jul) : After starting off camp with 25 straight made field goals, Brandon McManus has missed one
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