Zero2Cool
15 years ago
He didn't have IT before what makes anyone think he's going to suddenly have IT now? lol ... the guy was a garbage QB.

The Packers would be more help to Vick than Vick would be to them. We just do not run the offense that is tailored to his skills.


Vick, thrown over 2500 yards, once. Threw for more 20 TD's, once. To his credit though, has not thrown more than 13 INT's in a season. That's pretty good right there and that helps a team a lot when you're not throwing 22 a season.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Once again, Mike Vick does not "deserve" a second chance. He hasn't done anything to earn it. (Sitting in the can for a few years just starts him over at square one -- it doesn't earn him anything.) Now that he's served his time, however, he may, depending on your own worldview, be entitled to a second chance. There's a subtle but, in my opinion, very important difference between the two concepts.

If Green Bay chooses to give him that second chance and he makes our team better, so be it. I agree, treat him like a rookie and let him earn his way up the ladder.
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go.pack.go.
15 years ago
Every team except for 5 has declined interest in Michael Vick. Green Bay is one of those 5.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
As long as Vick doesn't represent a threat to his own position, I imagine Rodgers would welcome the chance to play with Vick. Imagine how much pressure a running threat like that could take off of Rodgers in the pocket. It might even increase Rodgers' own yards-per-rush stat.
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DarkaneRules
15 years ago
I will use this personal analogy based on my feelings.

You know that movie you LOVED growing up that is about to be remade. You think it is pretty cool to have remakes until it comes to that one movie that is really close to your heart. American "Pit" Bull Terriers and Staffordshires are my favorite breeds of dogs. I rescue a couple as strays and lost one to a heart condition earlier this year. I think he should get a second chance, but when it comes to my favorite football team, it just gets too close to comfort for me. I understand that I have a bias and that it comes with scrutiny of it's own, but I just could not endorse anyone coming to my favorite football team that I have knowledge of having any involvement with dog fighting.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I must admit, however, that I find myself skeptical of any story that has a line like this:

Our insiders told us they had to swear on their first borns life not to discuss the teams interest in signing Vick.



It sounds to me too much like the ad copy from those sensationalized template sites that litter the internet. Even granting the hyperbole of the statement, if they truly swore on their firstborn's life not to reveal this information, then went ahead and revealed it anyway, they frankly deserve to be fired.

Time will tell. Internal discussions, no matter how lively, don't necessarily mean they're willing to take the big step of offering him a deal.
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obi1
15 years ago
Why the Packers?

Doesn't the NFL have reams named after ferocious dogs?
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
[WARNING: Long pontification coming!!]

IMNSHO there are two, and only two questions, that Ted Thompson and company need to ask re: VIck:

1. What, deep down, is the state of his character right now.
2. Does he offer more as a backup QB than Flynn or Brohm?

The second question is by far the easier. It isn't a slam dunk either way, but there are certainly arguments to me made that, even with the "time off" and the "age" question, he offers more than one (or perhaps both) of our current backups.

Unfortunately, the first question is more important, and a lot harder to answer. And, if the first question can't be answered, the second should be irrelevant.

That Vick may have convinced Roger Goodell impresses me not at all -- Goodell is a politician and image consultant. That he has apparently convinced Tony Dungy, one of the highest character guys in sport, impresses me more.

Is it enough? I dunno. Frankly, I consider dog abusers as among the worst scum on the planet, and I'm cynical enough about pro athletes and their spin machines that I find it hard to believe in the depth of Vick's repentance.

I think the "he's done his time" argument completely off base. Jail time is for an offense against the law. Law and morality are not the same. And, in my opinion, character analysis neither starts nor stops with the law. Character analysis is about the moral quality of the person.

Why should this morality stuff come into play for Thompson, et al? Because we reveal our character by who *we* associate with. If I hang out with litterers and mother-rapers on the Group W bench (obscure Arlo Guthrie reference), then that says something about *my* character. If the Packers admit people they believe to be unreformed scum to the roster in the name of wins, that says something about *their* character.

And it doesn't say something good.

If the Packers truly believe that Vick has reformed his character, that he truly repents and is striving to treat animals the way a sentient being should because he now believes that no one should treat animals the way he used to treat dogs, that's one thing. If they are inverting the order of questions 1 and 2, however, then it's another.

If the Packers think Vick has truly reformed, not by "serving his time," but by digging deep inside and working to change his character, then they should be applauded if they decide to "forgive and give another chance". Not condemned.

I know they'd be better than me. Because, as a dog person (see my avatar), I doubt I'll be able to get past Vick's old character for awhile yet.

Perhaps it is because forgiveness has to be a person-to-person thing. Can you forgive someone in the abstract? Really forgive them? Or can you only forgive them when you're close enough to them that you can truly assess the reality of their character? I can, and have, forgiven family and friends many things. (And they, ahem, have forgiven me even more and worse things.) But forgive some random guy in Atlanta who I only "know of" because he's been on ESPN a zillion times, but who I've never talked with? I'm not sure that's possible.

So where do I stand on the question? As a Christian, I'm not particularly proud of this, but I don't believe Mr. Vick just yet. But were I Ted THompson, who probably knows Tony Dungy if not Vick himself, I'd like to think I'd ask myself, do I trust Tony (or someone else who knows Vick) enough to give Vick some time. And if I did trust Tony or that someone else, I'd like to think I'd give Vick an extended opportunity to reveal his character to me.

And, if during that extended opportunity, Vick convinced me he truly was "changed", then -- and only then -- I'd start thinking about him as a possible wearer of Green and Goal according to the criterion of Question #2.

If Ted's refusal to "reject out of hand" at the news conference was because he's already "behind the scenes, over the last N months" given that opportunity to Vick, if he isn't rejecting because he's in the process of asking question #1 (or if he's already done the Dungy thing and is thinking about question #2), then Ted should be applauded.

If the "process" Ted talked about was just question#2, however, then, IMO, he should be condemned.

Not because Vick is still a scumbag. But because he, Thompson, is willing to associate with unrepentent scumbags as long as it improves the bottom line.

And, IMO, that brings Ted's character into question.

So I believe.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

Every team except for 5 has declined interest in Michael Vick. Green Bay is one of those 5.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



I'm willing to bet one of the teams that has 'declined' will end up signing him.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Every team except for 5 has declined interest in Michael Vick. Green Bay is one of those 5.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I'm willing to bet one of the teams that has 'declined' will end up signing him.

"go.pack.go." wrote:



I'm with you, Zero2Cool.

If I had to guess, it would be one the "big public splash" owner types. The kind who tend to shrug off bad publicity as "any publicity is good publicity, especially since it keeps *me* in front of the camera". A Dan Snyder type.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (22h) : Bengals planning to Franchise Tag Tamaurice Higgins
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
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