Zero2Cool
a year ago
Whenever something goes awry or bad, it seems the weak minded people immediately want to blame someone, anyone. Yes, I get it, accountability is a requirement. The degree of blame is where I have an issue with. A cashier does something heinous and immediately folks wanna fire the CEO.

Which makes me wonder something, how do we assign blame in the NFL?
CEO/Owner
General Manager 
Head Coach
Offensive Coordinator
Defensive Coordinator
Special Teams Coordinator
Position Coaches

I was listening to sports talk yesterday and Mark Tauscher (clown) was blaming Matt LaFleur for trotting Amari Rodgers out there on punt returns. And then Mark blamed it on Brian Gutekunst for allegedly forcing LaFleur to keep Amari on (and only) punt returns because Gutekunst used a day two pick on him.

I feel the "blame" here goes to to Special Teams Coordinator because it was him who repeatedly said he wasn't giving up on Amari yet.

So, do we want the HC to micromanage and ignore the coordinators? 

Hell, what are the expected duties of the position coaches and coordinators during the game? Maybe we need to define that first.

UPDATE: Improved the title since my previous title was very knucklehead short-sighted.
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Cheesey
a year ago
When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
THere was plenty of blame to go around. 
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago
I knew I shouldn't have cited an example as it would distract people, lol. ALAN!!!!

When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
There was plenty of blame to go around.  

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I do agree, that it's create coordinator backs his guys, but the HC has to be like OK that's 2nd fumble, park his ass. MOVING ON! 😀

What are the actual responsibilities we can hold each of those accountable for? I'm going to screw up again and mention the CB's constantly playing cushion. Is that the coordinator? position coach? head coach? PLAYER?

This is the stuff I'm talking about. We blame so easily, but where's the focus on HOW we blame? Let's not focus on the examples, let's focus on the question. And go! Please ...
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Cheesey
a year ago
Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post.
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post. 

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
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Cheesey
a year ago
A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. 
the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
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a year ago
Hypothetically, you can blame every decision on the top person at any organizations.   In business, that is one of the reasons they make so much...they answer for everything.

The problem in assigning blame is that we are working with imperfect information concerning imperfect people in imperfect circumstances.  Ergo, it can be very difficult to accurately assess or assign blame.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

However, I had incomplete information.   If IIRC in this particular situation, the player was told by the ST coach and HC NOT to run the ball out if goes into the end zone.  Case closed, right?

Largely....except what if those same coaches are harping all week about "making plays"!   "We need to make a play!"  So the guy tries to make a play, resulting one the dumbest expressions coaches hear "I was just trying to make a play coach!"    Arrrrgh,!!! Don't worry about making plays!!! Do your job in a manner you were taught and the plays will happen.

Now...couple that with the fact that coaches are very reluctant to throw players under the bus, so we are less likely to get full forthright information.

Placing blame isn't as easy as it seems.

So if Rodgers wanted Gute fired (which I doubt) for drafting a QB, do we really know if that is what Gute wanted.  Perhaps Murphy told him to get a QB because Rodgers was getting long in the tooth,..we will never probably never know how those discussion went.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a year ago
I feel it's pure cowardice to BLINDLY blame the top person in charge, especially when they are not directly involved with whatever happened. If a cashier at Kohl's smacks a puppy and pushes a toddler down to the ground, you're gonna fault the Tom Kingsbury? How ignorant can we be? If Tom does NOTHING about it, then, THEN we absolutely have causation to assign blame. Spare me the "they make big bucks" bullpoopoo line too. We all know the CEO's job isn't to fall on the sword and become unemployed. Cancel culture idiocy at it's finest.

I guess .. I have strong opinions about this. 🤷‍♂️ Sorry everyone, haha.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



We actually know who to fault for this though. Montgomery said he wasn't supposed to take it out and did anyway because he wanted to seize the moment or whatever he said. So I feel we already know this is 100% on the player in that example. 

Your point is valid though, often times, we don't know. We can talk about Brandon Bostick, who was explicitly told to block but he wanted to be the hero so he deviated from his "job" and ... we know how that went. So, another spot where we real-time fault the Special Teams Coordinator, but in reality, it was the player defying the coaching.

What about that 4th and 26 play? Ed Donatelle called a blitz and Mike Sherman overruled it. Then guess who lost their job? Hint, it wasn't Sherman.

I know I'm ignorant on the details so it's just hard for me to wield pitchforks in the heat of the moment and demand someone lose their means of supporting their family. Maybe that makes me soft or weak or both?
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Cheesey
a year ago

You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


KEven, did you read what I wrote?
I said fans, and then I said Rodgers (or any player). Seems you are quick to jump on what I'm saying without actually taking the time to understand what I'm saying.
I did not say YOU said fans. I was stating how fans can be quick to jump on the "fire him" bandwagon.
And that it seems that Rodgers was trying to get his way (if the whole thing is true)
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Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
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