Zero2Cool
a year ago
Whenever something goes awry or bad, it seems the weak minded people immediately want to blame someone, anyone. Yes, I get it, accountability is a requirement. The degree of blame is where I have an issue with. A cashier does something heinous and immediately folks wanna fire the CEO.

Which makes me wonder something, how do we assign blame in the NFL?
CEO/Owner
General Manager 
Head Coach
Offensive Coordinator
Defensive Coordinator
Special Teams Coordinator
Position Coaches

I was listening to sports talk yesterday and Mark Tauscher (clown) was blaming Matt LaFleur for trotting Amari Rodgers out there on punt returns. And then Mark blamed it on Brian Gutekunst for allegedly forcing LaFleur to keep Amari on (and only) punt returns because Gutekunst used a day two pick on him.

I feel the "blame" here goes to to Special Teams Coordinator because it was him who repeatedly said he wasn't giving up on Amari yet.

So, do we want the HC to micromanage and ignore the coordinators? 

Hell, what are the expected duties of the position coaches and coordinators during the game? Maybe we need to define that first.

UPDATE: Improved the title since my previous title was very knucklehead short-sighted.
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Cheesey
a year ago
When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
THere was plenty of blame to go around. 
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago
I knew I shouldn't have cited an example as it would distract people, lol. ALAN!!!!

When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
There was plenty of blame to go around.  

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I do agree, that it's create coordinator backs his guys, but the HC has to be like OK that's 2nd fumble, park his ass. MOVING ON! 😀

What are the actual responsibilities we can hold each of those accountable for? I'm going to screw up again and mention the CB's constantly playing cushion. Is that the coordinator? position coach? head coach? PLAYER?

This is the stuff I'm talking about. We blame so easily, but where's the focus on HOW we blame? Let's not focus on the examples, let's focus on the question. And go! Please ...
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Cheesey
a year ago
Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post.
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post. 

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
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Cheesey
a year ago
A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. 
the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
UserPostedImage
a year ago
Hypothetically, you can blame every decision on the top person at any organizations.   In business, that is one of the reasons they make so much...they answer for everything.

The problem in assigning blame is that we are working with imperfect information concerning imperfect people in imperfect circumstances.  Ergo, it can be very difficult to accurately assess or assign blame.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

However, I had incomplete information.   If IIRC in this particular situation, the player was told by the ST coach and HC NOT to run the ball out if goes into the end zone.  Case closed, right?

Largely....except what if those same coaches are harping all week about "making plays"!   "We need to make a play!"  So the guy tries to make a play, resulting one the dumbest expressions coaches hear "I was just trying to make a play coach!"    Arrrrgh,!!! Don't worry about making plays!!! Do your job in a manner you were taught and the plays will happen.

Now...couple that with the fact that coaches are very reluctant to throw players under the bus, so we are less likely to get full forthright information.

Placing blame isn't as easy as it seems.

So if Rodgers wanted Gute fired (which I doubt) for drafting a QB, do we really know if that is what Gute wanted.  Perhaps Murphy told him to get a QB because Rodgers was getting long in the tooth,..we will never probably never know how those discussion went.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a year ago
I feel it's pure cowardice to BLINDLY blame the top person in charge, especially when they are not directly involved with whatever happened. If a cashier at Kohl's smacks a puppy and pushes a toddler down to the ground, you're gonna fault the Tom Kingsbury? How ignorant can we be? If Tom does NOTHING about it, then, THEN we absolutely have causation to assign blame. Spare me the "they make big bucks" bullpoopoo line too. We all know the CEO's job isn't to fall on the sword and become unemployed. Cancel culture idiocy at it's finest.

I guess .. I have strong opinions about this. 🤷‍♂️ Sorry everyone, haha.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



We actually know who to fault for this though. Montgomery said he wasn't supposed to take it out and did anyway because he wanted to seize the moment or whatever he said. So I feel we already know this is 100% on the player in that example. 

Your point is valid though, often times, we don't know. We can talk about Brandon Bostick, who was explicitly told to block but he wanted to be the hero so he deviated from his "job" and ... we know how that went. So, another spot where we real-time fault the Special Teams Coordinator, but in reality, it was the player defying the coaching.

What about that 4th and 26 play? Ed Donatelle called a blitz and Mike Sherman overruled it. Then guess who lost their job? Hint, it wasn't Sherman.

I know I'm ignorant on the details so it's just hard for me to wield pitchforks in the heat of the moment and demand someone lose their means of supporting their family. Maybe that makes me soft or weak or both?
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Cheesey
a year ago

You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


KEven, did you read what I wrote?
I said fans, and then I said Rodgers (or any player). Seems you are quick to jump on what I'm saying without actually taking the time to understand what I'm saying.
I did not say YOU said fans. I was stating how fans can be quick to jump on the "fire him" bandwagon.
And that it seems that Rodgers was trying to get his way (if the whole thing is true)
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Zero2Cool (31-Jan) : Jets have named Chris Banjo as their special teams coordinator, Former Packers player
Zero2Cool (31-Jan) : Jaguars have hired Anthony Campanile as their DC. We lose coach
Zero2Cool (30-Jan) : QB coach Sean Mannion
Zero2Cool (30-Jan) : DL Coach DeMarcus Covington
dfosterf (30-Jan) : from ft Belvoir, Quantico and points south. Somber reminder of this tragedy at Reagan Nat Airport
dfosterf (30-Jan) : So eerily quiet here in Alexandria. I live in the flight path of commercial craft coming from the south and west, plus the military craft
dfosterf (30-Jan) : So eeri
Mucky Tundra (30-Jan) : Now that's a thought, maybe they're looking at the college ranks? Maybe not head coaches but DC/assistant DCs with league experience?
beast (30-Jan) : College Coaches wouldn't want that publicly, as it would hurt recruiting and they might not get the job.
beast (30-Jan) : I thought they were supposed to publicly announce them, at least the NFL ones. Hafley was from college, so I believe different rules.
Mucky Tundra (30-Jan) : Who knows who they're interviewing? I mean, nobody knew about Hafley and then out of nowhere he was hired
beast (30-Jan) : I wonder what's taking so long with hiring a DL coach, 2 of the 3 known to interview have already been hired elsewhere.
Zero2Cool (27-Jan) : Packers coach Matt LaFleur hires Luke Getsy as senior assistant, extends Rich Bisaccia's deal
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Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : Chiefs Eagles...again...sigh
dfosterf (27-Jan) : Happy Birthday Dave!
Mucky Tundra (27-Jan) : happy birthday dhazer
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Exactly buck...Washington came up with the ball. It is just a shitty coincidence one week later
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : I forgot, they corrected the call a week later. Lol btw HAPPY BIRTHDAY dhazer!
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : That brings up the question, why wasn't Nixon down by contact? I think that was the point Kanata was making.
buckeyepackfan (26-Jan) : Turnovers rule, win the turnover battle, win the game.
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : well, he was
TheKanataThrilla (26-Jan) : Eagles down by contact on the fumble....fuck you NFL
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : I think this games over
beast (26-Jan) : Eagles sure get a lot of fumbles on kickoffs
Mucky Tundra (26-Jan) : This game looks too big for Washington
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : that being said, The Ravens are the Browns
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : Browns, Dolphins have longest AFC Championship droughts
packerfanoutwest (26-Jan) : As of today, Cowboys have longest NFC Championship drought,
beast (26-Jan) : Someone pointed out, with Raiders hiring Carroll, the division games between Carroll and Jim Harbaugh are back on (who can whine more games)
beast (26-Jan) : I'm confused, Pete Carroll and Brian Schottenheimer? When Todd Monken, Joe Brady, Kellen Moore, Kliff Kingsbury and Zac Robinson are availab
Zero2Cool (25-Jan) : Any reason I'm catching a shot here about my intelligence?
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : thank you Mucky for sticking up for me
Martha Careful (25-Jan) : some of those people are smarter than you zero. However Pete Carroll is not
Mucky Tundra (24-Jan) : Rude!
beast (24-Jan) : Martha? 😋
Zero2Cool (24-Jan) : Raiders hired someone from the elderly home.
dfosterf (24-Jan) : I'm going with a combination of the two.
beast (24-Jan) : Either the Cowboys have no idea what they're doing, or they're targeting their former OC, currently the Eagles OC
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Fake news. Cowboys say no
Zero2Cool (23-Jan) : Mystery candidate in the Cowboys head coaching search believed to be Packers ST Coordinator Rich Bisaccia.
beast (23-Jan) : Also why do both NYC teams have absolutely horrible OL for over a decade?
beast (23-Jan) : I wonder why the Jets always hire defensive coaches to be head coach
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Still HC positions available out there. I wonder if Hafley pops up for one
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Trent Baalke is out as the Jaguars GM.
dfosterf (22-Jan) : Jeff Hafley would have been a better choice, fortunately they don't know that. Someone will figure that out next off season
Zero2Cool (22-Jan) : Aaron Glenn Planning To Take Jets HC Job
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