Zero2Cool
a year ago
Whenever something goes awry or bad, it seems the weak minded people immediately want to blame someone, anyone. Yes, I get it, accountability is a requirement. The degree of blame is where I have an issue with. A cashier does something heinous and immediately folks wanna fire the CEO.

Which makes me wonder something, how do we assign blame in the NFL?
CEO/Owner
General Manager 
Head Coach
Offensive Coordinator
Defensive Coordinator
Special Teams Coordinator
Position Coaches

I was listening to sports talk yesterday and Mark Tauscher (clown) was blaming Matt LaFleur for trotting Amari Rodgers out there on punt returns. And then Mark blamed it on Brian Gutekunst for allegedly forcing LaFleur to keep Amari on (and only) punt returns because Gutekunst used a day two pick on him.

I feel the "blame" here goes to to Special Teams Coordinator because it was him who repeatedly said he wasn't giving up on Amari yet.

So, do we want the HC to micromanage and ignore the coordinators? 

Hell, what are the expected duties of the position coaches and coordinators during the game? Maybe we need to define that first.

UPDATE: Improved the title since my previous title was very knucklehead short-sighted.
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Cheesey
a year ago
When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
THere was plenty of blame to go around. 
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago
I knew I shouldn't have cited an example as it would distract people, lol. ALAN!!!!

When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
There was plenty of blame to go around.  

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I do agree, that it's create coordinator backs his guys, but the HC has to be like OK that's 2nd fumble, park his ass. MOVING ON! 😀

What are the actual responsibilities we can hold each of those accountable for? I'm going to screw up again and mention the CB's constantly playing cushion. Is that the coordinator? position coach? head coach? PLAYER?

This is the stuff I'm talking about. We blame so easily, but where's the focus on HOW we blame? Let's not focus on the examples, let's focus on the question. And go! Please ...
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Cheesey
a year ago
Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post.
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post. 

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
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Cheesey
a year ago
A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. 
the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
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a year ago
Hypothetically, you can blame every decision on the top person at any organizations.   In business, that is one of the reasons they make so much...they answer for everything.

The problem in assigning blame is that we are working with imperfect information concerning imperfect people in imperfect circumstances.  Ergo, it can be very difficult to accurately assess or assign blame.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

However, I had incomplete information.   If IIRC in this particular situation, the player was told by the ST coach and HC NOT to run the ball out if goes into the end zone.  Case closed, right?

Largely....except what if those same coaches are harping all week about "making plays"!   "We need to make a play!"  So the guy tries to make a play, resulting one the dumbest expressions coaches hear "I was just trying to make a play coach!"    Arrrrgh,!!! Don't worry about making plays!!! Do your job in a manner you were taught and the plays will happen.

Now...couple that with the fact that coaches are very reluctant to throw players under the bus, so we are less likely to get full forthright information.

Placing blame isn't as easy as it seems.

So if Rodgers wanted Gute fired (which I doubt) for drafting a QB, do we really know if that is what Gute wanted.  Perhaps Murphy told him to get a QB because Rodgers was getting long in the tooth,..we will never probably never know how those discussion went.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a year ago
I feel it's pure cowardice to BLINDLY blame the top person in charge, especially when they are not directly involved with whatever happened. If a cashier at Kohl's smacks a puppy and pushes a toddler down to the ground, you're gonna fault the Tom Kingsbury? How ignorant can we be? If Tom does NOTHING about it, then, THEN we absolutely have causation to assign blame. Spare me the "they make big bucks" bullpoopoo line too. We all know the CEO's job isn't to fall on the sword and become unemployed. Cancel culture idiocy at it's finest.

I guess .. I have strong opinions about this. 🤷‍♂️ Sorry everyone, haha.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



We actually know who to fault for this though. Montgomery said he wasn't supposed to take it out and did anyway because he wanted to seize the moment or whatever he said. So I feel we already know this is 100% on the player in that example. 

Your point is valid though, often times, we don't know. We can talk about Brandon Bostick, who was explicitly told to block but he wanted to be the hero so he deviated from his "job" and ... we know how that went. So, another spot where we real-time fault the Special Teams Coordinator, but in reality, it was the player defying the coaching.

What about that 4th and 26 play? Ed Donatelle called a blitz and Mike Sherman overruled it. Then guess who lost their job? Hint, it wasn't Sherman.

I know I'm ignorant on the details so it's just hard for me to wield pitchforks in the heat of the moment and demand someone lose their means of supporting their family. Maybe that makes me soft or weak or both?
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Cheesey
a year ago

You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


KEven, did you read what I wrote?
I said fans, and then I said Rodgers (or any player). Seems you are quick to jump on what I'm saying without actually taking the time to understand what I'm saying.
I did not say YOU said fans. I was stating how fans can be quick to jump on the "fire him" bandwagon.
And that it seems that Rodgers was trying to get his way (if the whole thing is true)
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Zero2Cool (10h) : It's a poor design. New site has SignalR like our gameday chat
wpr (11h) : Ah today's Shout was very quick to post.
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beast (20h) : What is he supposed to say? He doesn't want players currently on the team?
Martha Careful (21-Apr) : meh
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : Sounds like Walker and Wyatt will be with Packers for beyond 2026
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : It's so awesome.
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : new site fan shout post fast
wpr (21-Apr) : Slow posting in Fan shout.
wpr (21-Apr) : Only 4
wpr (21-Apr) : Only 4
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : If only we had a topic to read about and discuss it. That's something new website must have!!!
dfosterf (21-Apr) : Justice Musqueda over at Acme Packing put up an excellent synopsis of the Packers 1st round options this am
wpr (19-Apr) : 5 days
beast (18-Apr) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
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