Zero2Cool
a year ago
Whenever something goes awry or bad, it seems the weak minded people immediately want to blame someone, anyone. Yes, I get it, accountability is a requirement. The degree of blame is where I have an issue with. A cashier does something heinous and immediately folks wanna fire the CEO.

Which makes me wonder something, how do we assign blame in the NFL?
CEO/Owner
General Manager 
Head Coach
Offensive Coordinator
Defensive Coordinator
Special Teams Coordinator
Position Coaches

I was listening to sports talk yesterday and Mark Tauscher (clown) was blaming Matt LaFleur for trotting Amari Rodgers out there on punt returns. And then Mark blamed it on Brian Gutekunst for allegedly forcing LaFleur to keep Amari on (and only) punt returns because Gutekunst used a day two pick on him.

I feel the "blame" here goes to to Special Teams Coordinator because it was him who repeatedly said he wasn't giving up on Amari yet.

So, do we want the HC to micromanage and ignore the coordinators? 

Hell, what are the expected duties of the position coaches and coordinators during the game? Maybe we need to define that first.

UPDATE: Improved the title since my previous title was very knucklehead short-sighted.
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Cheesey
a year ago
When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
THere was plenty of blame to go around. 
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago
I knew I shouldn't have cited an example as it would distract people, lol. ALAN!!!!

When Amari was consistently messing up on the punt returns, and the ST coach didn't yank him after several mishaps, then to me the head coach should have stepped in and yanked Amari. In the end, he's the one that it falls on, good or bad.
There was plenty of blame to go around.  

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I do agree, that it's create coordinator backs his guys, but the HC has to be like OK that's 2nd fumble, park his ass. MOVING ON! 😀

What are the actual responsibilities we can hold each of those accountable for? I'm going to screw up again and mention the CB's constantly playing cushion. Is that the coordinator? position coach? head coach? PLAYER?

This is the stuff I'm talking about. We blame so easily, but where's the focus on HOW we blame? Let's not focus on the examples, let's focus on the question. And go! Please ...
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Cheesey
a year ago
Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post.
 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

Being that NONE of us are there to hear what is said or done, all we can do is give our opinions on who is to blame for what. There are no set in stone rules as to exact responsibilities of which coach.
And it could be different from team to team.
That's what I was getting at with my post. 

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
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Cheesey
a year ago
A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. 
the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

A fan demanding someone in a NFL team to get fired is worth about NOTHING. the only opinions that count are those that are actually in charge of those teams . 
And Aaron Rodgers wanting Gute fired (if true) was not his position to make that happen. And if the Packer front office had done so,  that would have been a terrible thing to do. They would have lost all respect AND control of current and future players.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?
UserPostedImage
a year ago
Hypothetically, you can blame every decision on the top person at any organizations.   In business, that is one of the reasons they make so much...they answer for everything.

The problem in assigning blame is that we are working with imperfect information concerning imperfect people in imperfect circumstances.  Ergo, it can be very difficult to accurately assess or assign blame.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

However, I had incomplete information.   If IIRC in this particular situation, the player was told by the ST coach and HC NOT to run the ball out if goes into the end zone.  Case closed, right?

Largely....except what if those same coaches are harping all week about "making plays"!   "We need to make a play!"  So the guy tries to make a play, resulting one the dumbest expressions coaches hear "I was just trying to make a play coach!"    Arrrrgh,!!! Don't worry about making plays!!! Do your job in a manner you were taught and the plays will happen.

Now...couple that with the fact that coaches are very reluctant to throw players under the bus, so we are less likely to get full forthright information.

Placing blame isn't as easy as it seems.

So if Rodgers wanted Gute fired (which I doubt) for drafting a QB, do we really know if that is what Gute wanted.  Perhaps Murphy told him to get a QB because Rodgers was getting long in the tooth,..we will never probably never know how those discussion went.
Go Packers!!!!
Zero2Cool
a year ago
I feel it's pure cowardice to BLINDLY blame the top person in charge, especially when they are not directly involved with whatever happened. If a cashier at Kohl's smacks a puppy and pushes a toddler down to the ground, you're gonna fault the Tom Kingsbury? How ignorant can we be? If Tom does NOTHING about it, then, THEN we absolutely have causation to assign blame. Spare me the "they make big bucks" bullpoopoo line too. We all know the CEO's job isn't to fall on the sword and become unemployed. Cancel culture idiocy at it's finest.

I guess .. I have strong opinions about this. 🤷‍♂️ Sorry everyone, haha.

A few years back vs the Rams, when Montgomery returned a kick off from the end zone and he fumbled, who was to blame?  The player? The ST coach?  The head coach?  The GM?   Watching the game, in real time, I blamed the ST coach and head coach. 

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



We actually know who to fault for this though. Montgomery said he wasn't supposed to take it out and did anyway because he wanted to seize the moment or whatever he said. So I feel we already know this is 100% on the player in that example. 

Your point is valid though, often times, we don't know. We can talk about Brandon Bostick, who was explicitly told to block but he wanted to be the hero so he deviated from his "job" and ... we know how that went. So, another spot where we real-time fault the Special Teams Coordinator, but in reality, it was the player defying the coaching.

What about that 4th and 26 play? Ed Donatelle called a blitz and Mike Sherman overruled it. Then guess who lost their job? Hint, it wasn't Sherman.

I know I'm ignorant on the details so it's just hard for me to wield pitchforks in the heat of the moment and demand someone lose their means of supporting their family. Maybe that makes me soft or weak or both?
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Cheesey
a year ago

You didn't even read what I said. You just responded. C'mon, Alan! I didn't say fans wanting someone fired was going to get the person fired, did I? No! 

I said ---

So then it's super careless to demand someone to be fired, yes? As you said, we do not know what is said, what is done so having the opinion that someone should lose their employment when we have fractional information is kind of ... wrong?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


KEven, did you read what I wrote?
I said fans, and then I said Rodgers (or any player). Seems you are quick to jump on what I'm saying without actually taking the time to understand what I'm saying.
I did not say YOU said fans. I was stating how fans can be quick to jump on the "fire him" bandwagon.
And that it seems that Rodgers was trying to get his way (if the whole thing is true)
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Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (2h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (3h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (14h) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (14h) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (14h) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (17h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (17h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (18h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (20h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (20h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (20h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (20h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (20h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (20h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (20h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (20h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (21h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (22h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (22h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (22h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (22h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (22h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (22h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
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