Pack93z
15 years ago
Wait, I thought Ted had hands in many a draft and basically ran the Seattle drafts for a couple of years.

Ted has been in this business for years, he has built his reputation on scouting and talent evaluation... so excuse me if I don't buy into the Ted is new at this gig; at least in terms of drafting talent.

Team building, I will buy the inexperience factor, but not in properly evaluating and drafting talent.

And that doesn't figure in the additional personnel people under him, John Dorsey for example..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
warhawk
15 years ago

I have no idea. I'm not a Colts fan and this is the first time I've looked at their draft picks.

But if you're referring to the whole "Ted Thompson drafts BPA and not for need" thing, I think that's blown far out of proportion. He isn't going to draft 12 safeties because they were the BPA at that pick. All I think he means is that he doesn't, for instance, go into a draft saying "We need DE, LB, OT, and CB, so I'm drafting the best DE in round 1, the best LB in round 2, the best OT and CB in round 3."

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



I disagree with this statement. It's not what BPA is about. Of course a team is not going to draft several guys at one position although it's certainly not unlikely to pick up say two.

What BPA means is REGARDLESS of positions where it's been determined there is a need you take the best player available no matter what position he plays.

The reasoning is you will always find a place for a good player AND about all you have to do is wait a year in the NFL and where you were deep all of a sudden your not. So, if you believe you can never have enough good players you take the one up next you think is the best guy on the board.

Did we NEED Arod in '05? No. He fell to us and was deemed the best name on the board. Did we NEED Jordy Nelson? No. Same thing. Deemed the best name on the board.

If Michael Crabtree were to somehow fall to #9 AND he was deemed the best name on the board. Guess what? "With the 9th pick in the 2009 NFL Draft the Green Bay Packers select: Michael Crabtree.

If, in TT's mind, after all the advisement he recieves, there are two guys they are looking at. One plays a position where we need a guy and the other is clearly a better player but plays a position we are fairly well set at you can bet which one Ted Thompson is going for every time.

Where the nod on the "need" pick comes into play is when it's a virtual toss up and there is no clear better player in the mix. All the players your looking at grade out the same. Then the "need" gets the nod.
"The train is leaving the station."
warhawk
15 years ago
I also want to give Ted Thompson credit for taking Arod with that first pick which had to be a tough choice considering all the positions where they had a need at that time.

I
"The train is leaving the station."
15 years ago
We had a DEFINITE need for a starting QB, just not immediately.

I'm still skeptical it's as 100% guaranteed unless it's a "tie" as you say it is. How about 2 kickers in one draft? I'm sure his philosophy is to draft the best players he can, but I don't think it's a self-imposed Law for him to ignore need.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago

Ultimately the big picture isn't finished for Ted Thompson yet. Bill Polian has been around along time and you can look at his past drafts and it's impressive, but Ted really only has two drafts to really go off of.

"porky88" wrote:



Sort of.

Your first round pick should always be able to contribute immediately. Bustin? Um, no. 2008? We didn't have one.
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. šŸ‡¹šŸ‡¹ šŸ‡²šŸ‡² šŸ‡¦šŸ‡·
15 years ago
I always end up feeling like our 1st rounders are key players a few years down the road and our 2nd rounders are the ones who make an immediate impact.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Heh, if Michael Crabtree falls to us at #9, we damn well better take him. šŸ˜ƒ
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porky88
15 years ago

Wait, I thought Ted had hands in many a draft and basically ran the Seattle drafts for a couple of years.

Ted has been in this business for years, he has built his reputation on scouting and talent evaluation... so excuse me if I don't buy into the Ted is new at this gig; at least in terms of drafting talent.

Team building, I will buy the inexperience factor, but not in properly evaluating and drafting talent.

And that doesn't figure in the additional personnel people under him, John Dorsey for example..

"pack93z" wrote:



Unless you got it from Seattle first hand, you can't tell me that Thompson hit on a pick or missed on a pick. We don't know who was advocating for what in Seattle. I think Thompson had influence, but not the final say in Seattle.

Comparing him to Bill Polian who has been on the job since 98 for the Colts is tough. That's six years before Thompson got his job in Green Bay. Ozzie Newsome has been in Baltimore for awhile and Belichick in New England. It's apples and oranges. Of course those teams will be better because they have players in the prime of their careers.

I by no means am saying he should get a free pass, but I just think people expecting Bill Polian are jumping the gun. You don't know quite yet. Thompson has just reached that type of power in drafting where as the top guys have been doing it for years.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
15 years ago
I am not a Ted basher but I have not been overwhelmed with all of his selections.
Unless you are matt Millen any 1-2 round pick should be a starter and is hopefully pro Bowl caliber. Injuries of course can change the situation as in Murphy's case. Drafting an injured player who has not been back out on the field like Harrell does not get the same consideration.

05- Rodgers, Collins yes Murphy n/a
06- Hawk starter yes not but Pro Bowl caliber as he should be. Colledge starter not Pro Bowl caliber Jennings yes
07- Harrell no, Jackson no (maybe later but as of today no)
08- Nelson too early but the potential is there, Brohm no, Lee very very very early but can be
For the 1st two rounds Ted does not stand out above other GMs. Which means he is somewhere between C and B-. Once the 2008 players kick in more or if Hawk steps up he can move up.

Rounds 3-5 should get a few starters along with depth. Most should stick with the team but it is not out of the question that some will be cut.
05- Underwood, Hawkins, Coston no, Poppainga yes
06- Hodge, Rodgers, Martin, no, Spitz, Blackmon, Moll yes
07- Jones, Rouse, Barbre yes, Clowry no
08- Finley,Thompson, Sitton early results yes,
There are more misses than hits. C is as high as I could give him at this time. There are a few quality players in this group (Jones, Rouse, Finley maybe Sitton) that can help push the overall grade higher if they excel.

Rounds 6-7 you have to expect most of these guys to be cut. But an outstanding GM will not only find a few players that make the team but every once in awhile you will get a DD.
05- Montgomery yes, Bragg, Campbell, Whittacker no
06- Jolly yes, Culver, Tollefson no
07- Hall, Bishop, Crosby, Wynn yes Harris no
08- Giacomini, Flynn yes (for now) Swann no
There is at least one player from each draft that stayed and contributed so this portion of the draft gets Ted a B.

Overall Ted can't be considered to be much more than a C or C+ GM in the draft. He has misses in the 1st 2 rounds. Middle rounds are solid but not outstanding. Later rounds have produced some nice additions to the team. It will take more to move his grade up very much.

Off setting his draft record are his other moves.
Grant, Kuhn, D Lee, Jenkins, Pickett, Bigby, Woodson and even T Williams have all been solid to great moves. Now if he could only get a punter!
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warhawk
15 years ago

I am not a Ted basher but I have not been overwhelmed with all of his selections.
Unless you are matt Millen any 1-2 round pick should be a starter and is hopefully pro Bowl caliber. Injuries of course can change the situation as in Murphy's case. Drafting an injured player who has not been back out on the field like Harrell does not get the same consideration.

05- Rodgers, Collins yes Murphy n/a
06- Hawk starter yes not but Pro Bowl caliber as he should be. Colledge starter not Pro Bowl caliber Jennings yes
07- Harrell no, Jackson no (maybe later but as of today no)
08- Nelson too early but the potential is there, Brohm no, Lee very very very early but can be
For the 1st two rounds Ted does not stand out above other GMs. Which means he is somewhere between C and B-. Once the 2008 players kick in more or if Hawk steps up he can move up.

Rounds 3-5 should get a few starters along with depth. Most should stick with the team but it is not out of the question that some will be cut.
05- Underwood, Hawkins, Coston no, Poppainga yes
06- Hodge, Rodgers, Martin, no, Spitz, Blackmon, Moll yes
07- Jones, Rouse, Barbre yes, Clowry no
08- Finley,Thompson, Sitton early results yes,
There are more misses than hits. C is as high as I could give him at this time. There are a few quality players in this group (Jones, Rouse, Finley maybe Sitton) that can help push the overall grade higher if they excel.

Rounds 6-7 you have to expect most of these guys to be cut. But an outstanding GM will not only find a few players that make the team but every once in awhile you will get a Donald Driver.
05- Montgomery yes, Bragg, Campbell, Whittacker no
06- Jolly yes, Culver, Tollefson no
07- Hall, Bishop, Crosby, Wynn yes Harris no
08- Giacomini, Flynn yes (for now) Swann no
There is at least one player from each draft that stayed and contributed so this portion of the draft gets Ted a B.

Overall Ted can't be considered to be much more than a C or C+ GM in the draft. He has misses in the 1st 2 rounds. Middle rounds are solid but not outstanding. Later rounds have produced some nice additions to the team. It will take more to move his grade up very much.

Off setting his draft record are his other moves.
Grant, Kuhn, D Lee, Jenkins, Pickett, Bigby, Woodson and even T Williams have all been solid to great moves. Now if he could only get a punter!

"wpr" wrote:



I think your making a few wrong assumptions here.

In the first two rounds your saying:
Nelson is too early to tell? Why? The guy can play.
Hawk was the #1 "safest bet in the draft" that year.
Brohm is WAY to early to assess. You would be saying the same thing about Rodgers after the first year.
Jackson no? What? Every time he's in there he shows he belongs. If Grant goes down I am totally o.k. with Jackson filling in.

The only iffy guy on the list is Harrell. NOBODY can blame any GM that selects Hawk when he did. To evaluate what these guys have done to date in pure 20/20 hindsight is not the point.

Who did he take where that he shouldn't have at the time?

Harrell was the gamble although that was a lousy draft year and there was only a handful of worthy first rounders anyhow.

He was praised for picking up Hodge as late as he did and Brohm was considered a great pick at that place in the draft. While you would love 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders to stick or find a diamond in the rough there it happens seldom. I've said before if your team has a high number of players selected in those rounds your probably not a very good team.

I highly doubt the 6th and 7th round picks this year have much of a shot at making this team. Is that a testimony that Ted doesn't know how to draft or the fact he's already found better players and 6th or 7th round picks cannot compete with them?
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