Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

The Bible has been re-interpreted throughout the centuries to mesh with the current society expectations. If you go back and look at the original documents, even the ones in Hebrew, you'll find a lot of differences and not just minor ones either. It has some very brutal expectations and demands that today we label appalling and disgusting.

I have many friends and family who are very religious and I respect them and their views. But the Bible (regardless of which version you entrust) shows it's own invalid nature when you're not saying "Amen" after every punctuation and actually apply thought and logic to it.
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



So you are saying that God must submit His will to the "thought and logic" of us fallen humans to be valid?

Me, I'll go with the Apostle Paul, who noted that "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God🅱 may be complete, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16) For "Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? or since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach🅱 to save those who believe" (1 Corinthians 1:20-21).

God asks for more than belief in His existence. Satan believes God exists. God asks for the obedience that comes from faith in His Truth. And Scripture is the written statement of that Truth:
“Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” (Revelation 21:5).





And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
8 years ago
God gave us free will. You're free to belive whatever you want. Unlike you and your religion, I won't mock those who are different.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

Cheesey, president of PH's Mensa Club. 😂

People believe in evolution because of scientific facts. People have chosen to leave the teachings of the Bible because religious leaders insist the world is only 6,000 years old and built by the creator in six days. But hey, to each his own.

A lot of people like the idea of the supreme being and there are many versions of this person. To actually believe in the one that was introduced to you as a kid and dismiss everything else isn't faith, it's arrogance.

Hell, I'm even open to aliens mixing their DNA with primates to make modern humans. Truth is, nobody actually "knows" anything.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



People have chosen to the leave the teachings of the Bible for all sorts of reasons. Without a doubt. And each and every one of them has, in so doing, asserted that they are superior to God.

I don't know for sure whether God created the universe 6 billion years ago, 6,000 years ago, or 60 microseconds ago. I do, however, believe that He could have created the universe in any way or in any time frame that He wanted. And that He did.

If you cannot believe that God is capable of using 40+ individuals over several millenia to write 66 books exactly the way he wants it written for His believers to understand and obey for however long He wants it to be before He comes again, if, instead, you want to put your faith in scientists who have over the same time period found themselves again and again to have the "facts" wrong and needing correction, well, so be it.

Me, I trust the Word. Not because my Sunday school teachers told me to, but because He tells me to. And in Him, I trust.

So, if that means I get to be put into "Cheesey's Mensa Club", so be it. Happy to be with you, Alan, among those who the world things foolish for seeing His Word as without error.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

God gave us free will. You're free to belive whatever you want. Unlike you and your religion, I won't mock those who are different.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I wasn't aware that I was mocking anyone. Trying to point out why people are "wrong" in their beliefs, yes.

Because the consequences of believing badly are too big to just say "it's okay". I can't speak for Alan or anyone else in the "PH Mensa Club," but I don't want *anyone* to hear what Jesus in Matthew 7:23 promises many will hear when they stand before Him.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
8 years ago

It wasn't wrath against homososexuals. It was wrath against people of the two cities which were completely in rebellion against God's law. Homosexual behavior was just one part of that rebellion.

Indeed God had promised Abraham that he would spare them if even a few obedient people could be found. Probably is, apart from Lot's family (who were saved), there weren't any to be found.

Oh, and even if it were a comet/asteroid....you don't think God has the power to use them as the instrument of his wrath?

Originally Posted by: Wade 



No, I think it has more to do with gravity.
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DakotaT
8 years ago

I wasn't aware that I was mocking anyone. Trying to point out why people are "wrong" in their beliefs, yes.

Because the consequences of believing badly are too big to just say "it's okay". I can't speak for Alan or anyone else in the "PH Mensa Club," but I don't want *anyone* to hear what Jesus in Matthew 7:23 promises many will hear when they stand before Him.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I tell you what Wade, if you and Cheesey actually believe you can support the continuous oppression of the LGBT people in this world and still walk through those pearly gates, then you don't anything about Jesus. And being able to whip out a timely bible verse won't be helping your judgment day either. You are suppose to fight for the oppressed people in this world, not join the people beating them down. Keep up your bible studies. One day you might figure things out.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

I tell you what Wade, if you and Cheesey actually believe you can support the continuous oppression of the LGBT people in this world and still walk through those pearly gates, then you don't anything about Jesus. And being able to whip out a timely bible verse won't be helping your judgment day either. You are suppose to fight for the oppressed people in this world, not join the people beating them down. Keep up your bible studies. One day you might figure things out.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Exactly how does pointing out that homosexuality is a sin constitute "oppression"?

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
8 years ago

People have chosen to the leave the teachings of the Bible for all sorts of reasons. Without a doubt. And each and every one of them has, in so doing, asserted that they are superior to God.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



That is your opinion and absolutely nothing more than your opinion. And my opinion is you're wrong for it. You seemingly have little biblical knowledge beyond the scope of the one version and one interpretation that your family probably forced upon you. You didn't asked questions. You don't considered other religious thoughts. You read, believed and CONDEMNED others who did inquire or believe differently.

The Bible is an invented tool for control to inflict obedience by fear of what no one can prove or disprove. It was a brilliant concept. It's easy for someone to say there is no God because they can't see him and equally easy for you to come back with they fail to have Faith. It's an impossible argument and leaves both to be right.




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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

That is your opinion and absolutely nothing more than your opinion. And my opinion is you're wrong for it. You seemingly have little biblical knowledge beyond the scope of the one version and one interpretation that your family probably forced upon you. You didn't asked questions. You don't considered other religious thoughts. You read, believed and CONDEMNED others who did inquire or believe differently.

The Bible is an invented tool for control to inflict obedience by fear of what no one can prove or disprove. It was a brilliant concept. It's easy for someone to say there is no God because they can't see him and equally easy for you to come back with they fail to have Faith. It's an impossible argument and leaves both to be right.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Sigh.

My path to belief in the Bible as the inerrant Word of God has been far more complex than you think. I've spent a far bigger part of my life denying, avoiding, trying and considering "other religious thoughts" than you might think.

Were they alive, my parents would be amused at the idea that I have kept to the "one version they forced upon" me. They would be pleased that I have spent an increasing amount of time in recent years reading and thinking about the Bible, but they would also wonder what took me so long to "get" it.

As to my current theological stance, I expect my father and mother would each agree with me in part (though probably different parts) and disagree with me in part (also probably different parts).

That I do not have the Biblical knowledge that someone my age should, I freely admit. And so I am always open to correction about its teachings from those who have more.

And that includes correction which would point out where God says something else should be put in authority over and above Scripture. If indeed anyone can do that. (I don't believe anyone can do this latter, because to my current knowledge he says over and over and over again that we should not do so.)

I am sorry you read what I have said as condemnation. I have neither the desire nor the power to condemn others. I have not the power because, but for the sacrifice of Christ, I am and always would remain, utterly condemned myself. I have not the desire, because condemnation is God's role, not mine.

I have tried, and I will continue to try, to point out where in holy Scripture God condemns particular choices and beliefs, because I believe with Luther and Calvin in the principle of sola scriptura. I agree with you that the Bible is an "invented tool"; but I believe that its Inventor was God. And I believe it is a tool designed for obedience, but I believe that it is God demanding the obedience and I'm okay with that.

Now. Finally. For it took me a very long time to release that the consequences of the fall and my own sinful and inability to find the way by myself or through any of my fellow sinners, no matter how many books and letters after our names they/I might have. I believe that my own "judgment" is too flawed and too imperfect to trust.

And so I now strive to go to the Bible for all of my own decisions, to find and obey God's directions and to repent whenever I fail to obey. I must admit to mixed success, to falling short far too often. I am far from sanctified and lifelong habits of disobedience are hard to break. As we all do, I have so, so far to go. I like to think I'm getting better, but I also know I'm far, far away from where I should be.

It is not for me to say whether someone has sufficient faith or not. If I did say someone is without faith, then I am sorry for I have overstepped my bounds. Again. In the end, the sufficiency of anyone's faith is going to be God's call to make, too.

I do, however, believe that the Bible is the ultimate tool that we should all be guided by, and so I urge you and everyone else to use it as the final authority. If you don't believe me in what it says, then don't believe me. God knows I get Him wrong all the time. But if you don't believe me, don't believe yourself or Darwin or Einstein or Steve Jobs or Centuries of Accumulated Human Wisdom either. Look to what the Bible says yourself, and then trust God. And, to the best of your abilities, yes, obey its teachings. For in so doing, you obey Him.

And, when you fall short, as you will and as the Bible will also reveal, then repent and strive to obey better.

And feel free to point out whenever you think I need to listen and obey the teachings of His Word better, too.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
8 years ago
Skimmed through and wanted to see your final words in the post ...

And, when you fall short, as you will and as the Bible will also reveal, then repent and strive to obey better.

And feel free to point out whenever you think I need to listen and obey the teachings of His Word better, too.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



You've already deemed me a failure. Why would I waste my time with you? You've had your mind made. You believe you are superior to me because of your Faith. And yet while I quoted these two lines you fail to understand the problem an that my friend is precisely the problem.

It sickens me reading someone saying the things you are about this superiority complex. We are equals and the sooner you accept that regardless of color, race, sexuality and what have you, the sooner you can be accepted.

You are at peace with your faith and beliefs and although I disagree with it, I am happy for you and I feel that is what God would want from us all. To be happy and at peace with our decisions.
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dfosterf (11-Nov) : I believe Zero was being sarcastic
dfosterf (11-Nov) : Due to that rookie kicker Jake Bates that Zero said "he didn't want anyway". 58 yarder to tie the game, 52 yarder to win it. In fairness,
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beast (7-Nov) : Edge Rushers is the same... it's not the 4-3 vs 3-4 change, it's the Hafley's version of the 4-3... as all 32 teams are actually 4-2
Zero2Cool (6-Nov) : OLB to DE and player requests trade. Yet folks say they are same.
beast (5-Nov) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk
beast (5-Nov) : Might just re-sign the kicker we got
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