uffda udfa
9 years ago
http://packersnotes.com/2015/08/packers-must-fix-red-zone-woes/ 

---I don't think so.

Read item #2.

2) The lack of a top-flight tight end became a much bigger issue the smaller the field got. While Jemichael Finley was hardly a TD machine (20 in 70 games), his combination of size, quickness and leaping ability drew coverage toward him and away from the other receivers. Neither Richard Rodgers nor Andrew Quarless has that kind of skill set. Therefore, defenses were able to focus their attention and put their best cover people on Nelson, Cobb and Adams. That made finding open spaces to throw the ball a major challenge against quality secondaries (i.e Seattle and Buffalo).
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
9 years ago
Complaints about the Packer's TE's I get. But no #1 WR? Have you forgotten about Jordy Nelson? 4th in receiving yards and 2nd in TDS last year. That Randal Cobb guy is pretty good too.
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uffda udfa
9 years ago
We don't have that prototypical dominant receiver that is all but impossible to shutdown...Nelson is no Sterling Sharpe or James Lofton. Nice player but nowhere near that category. You can quote stats all day but Sharpe and Lofton were in another strata from Nelson.

No TE, either. Lacy is the closest we have to a real difference maker.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
9 years ago

We don't have that prototypical dominant receiver that is all but impossible to shutdown...Nelson is no Sterling Sharpe or James Lofton. Nice player but nowhere near that category. You can quote stats all day but Sharpe and Lofton were in another strata from Nelson.

No TE, either. Lacy is the closest we have to a real difference maker.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Yes, we can look at actual production all day, or we can go by gut instinct to support confirmation bias. I know which one I'll be doing, and it's clear the method you favor as well. Few WRs have been more productive than Jordy Nelson the last few years, even the apple of your eye Dez Bryant.
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Zero2Cool
9 years ago
I'm going to ignore the stupid WR talk in a thread that's about Richard Rodgers, a TE. 😎

Richard Rodgers and red zone issues. BTW, Packers were 11th in red zone touchdown conversions. Even when Packers had Jermichael Finley they couldn't hit 75% red zone touchdowns. Finely had one really good stretch of games where you threw it up and he brought it down in the end zone. I don't think any team has someone like that other than the Patriots with Rob Gronkowski.


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uffda udfa
9 years ago

Yes, we can look at actual production all day, or we can go by gut instinct to support confirmation bias. I know which one I'll be doing, and it's clear the method you favor as well. Few WRs have been more productive than Jordy Nelson the last few years, even the apple of your eye Dez Bryant.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Fancy terms like cb can be thrown out but if you were honest with yourself you would have to conclude that one guy is far more talented and feared than the other. I really like Jordy Nelson...think he's a heckuva player but he's not anywhere near as talented as Dez Bryant.

RR, sadly, will get until after next year before people conclude he just isn't "the one" for us at TE.

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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
9 years ago
"Talented", "feared", these are concepts that are difficult to quantify and you've presented zero factual evidence to back them up, nor explained how to measure and compare these qualities. It's all based on your gut feel, which to me is less than worthless as you've shown time and again you'll make your conclusion and then find an argument that suits your preconceived notion.

You might as well say Dez Bryant is more "philosophically profound" it would mean equally as much and you would have just as little to base this opinion on.

Me, I prefer to actually look at the performance of the respective players. Nelson compares well to Bryant by any metric you want to use. Unless, of course, you want to use vague concepts like talent, scariness, or magnetism which are impossible to prove, and have doubtful relevance to performance on the field.

The real amusing thing is that stats are apparently worthless, but only when they don't further Uffda's argument. When they do (see: 40 times), they are of utmost import.
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uffda udfa
9 years ago

"Talented", "feared", these are concepts that are difficult to quantify and you've presented zero factual evidence to back them up, nor explained how to measure and compare these qualities. It's all based on your gut feel, which to me is less than worthless as you've shown time and again you'll make your conclusion and then find an argument that suits your preconceived notion.

You might as well say Dez Bryant is more "philosophically profound" it would mean equally as much and you would have just as little to base this opinion on.

Me, I prefer to actually look at the performance of the respective players. Nelson has been a top 5 WR the last two years (would be the last 4 had he not been injured in 2012) by any metric you want to use. Unless, of course, you want to use vague concepts like talent, scariness, or magnetism which are impossible to prove, and have doubtful relevance to performance on the field.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Richard Rodgers is such an exciting player that, of course, the topic is going to evolve away from him because it isn't much fun talking about a run of the mill NFL TE even if he does play for the Packers.

You like to dance around things. Who would you rather face if you were a DB...oh, that's DEFENSIVE BACK just to be clear not some pejorative term. If you had to line up vs. one WR with everything on the line would you rather line up against Jordy Nelson or Dez Bryant? I hope that question isn't too vague for you. It's very simple.

Dez had more TD catches last season than Jordy ever had in a single season.

Dez has topped 1200 yards in a season in 5 seasons in the NFL while Jordy has topped 1200 the same amount in 7 seasons.

Dez has 381 receptions in 5 seasons...Jordy has 400 in 7. I'm going to guess that Dez has more than 19 receptions over the next two seasons to best Jordy's numbers after 7.

Jordy's two best seasons were his 6th and 7th... Dez is entering his 6th.

Dez has ROMO... Jordy has 12.

Dez Bryant changes the way D's play. If a D. coord had to choose one guy to double cover if both were on the field together is he double covering Jordy or Dez?

Who has Dez Bryant had opposite him? Anyone the caliber of Randall Cobb? Dez does have Witten while Jordy has slop so that might help wash that a little.


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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


DarkaneRules
9 years ago
Sometimes I think I am not a good person for discussion boards because I hate making comparisons. Having said that, a team that picks near the end of the draft every year isn't bound to have the best receiver in the league.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Fan Shout
beast (10h) : Yeah, but also some of the wording suggestions Jax only pranked called the QB, not the others... and if he had an open spreadsheet & 3 calls
beast (10h) : Thank goodness he's not leaving the Turtle in the Red Tide
Mucky Tundra (11h) : Cowboys 1st round pick Tyler Booker will indeed be bringing his pet turtle to Dallas with him
Mucky Tundra (11h) : that contained all prospects info and contact
Mucky Tundra (11h) : beast, according the Falcons statement Jax came across it on an ipad. If I had to guess, probably an open spread sheet or something
Zero2Cool (11h) : Simmons put up an emoji with cheese.
beast (12h) : Not sure anyone is interested in Isaiah Simmons... Collin Oliver might of taken his potential slot
beast (12h) : I'm going with Jax Ulbrich is not telling the whole truth... he accidentally came across it? Why would a defensive coordinator have a QB #?
Zero2Cool (12h) : He's not that great, but final piece of the script.\
Zero2Cool (12h) : If we add Isaiah Simmons, book your Super Bowl tickets
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Colts 1st round TE Tyler Warren also got prank called, was that Jax Ulbrich as well?
Zero2Cool (13h) : Jax Ulbrich, Jeff Ulbrich’s son, released an apology for his role in the Shedeur Sanders prank call.
Martha Careful (13h) : apparently he did not participate in practice or play on the east west shrine game nor the NFL combine. The kid was a mediocre spoiled brat
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Yeah that one that was a super wounded duck that Sanders supporters are highlighting to prove a point
Zero2Cool (14h) : Shough is the guy who missed guys at combine isn't he?
beast (14h) : It's not official until I'm dead! I have a chance still! (Not really)
Mucky Tundra (23h) : I could feel my body decomposing in real time when I read that
Mucky Tundra (23h) : @MIKEYSAINRISTIL Tyler Shough will officially be the last person drafted to the NFL born in the 1900’s
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : saw the tweet, he meant the city
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : Was that for the team or the city?
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 3m Draft grade is in: Green Bay gets an A. The people, the city, the venue were all superb. NFL Draft’s next
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matt LaFleur says Jaire Alexander is participating in #Packers offseason program, which has been conducted virtually during this first week
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : ✅ ...
buckeyepackfan (26-Apr) : Check
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matthew Golden cahanged 81 to 22??
TheKanataThrilla (26-Apr) : Sam Howell to Vikings...guess no Aaron
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : 1 round 7 min, with one extra minute if there is a trade. 2nd round 4 minutes, 3rd -3, 2 thereafter IMO
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Agree
dfosterf (26-Apr) : Great idea imo
dfosterf (26-Apr) : 1st round to 7 minutes with one extension
dfosterf (26-Apr) : NFL comissioner wants to shorten the 2st
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : @jalenreagors They’re discussing if Sheduer can go back to college on NFL Network LMFAOOOOO
beast (26-Apr) : Great point Martha
beast (26-Apr) : Buddy Ryan used to say if a candy bar goes missing, there are two to blame, Rex and Rob 🤪 jk 😁
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Bum Phillips used to say there are two ways to get better. Get better players or get players to play better. We have a new DL coach
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Yes. Look at the losses last year. They can win.
beast (26-Apr) : Can Packers win with their current DL?
bboystyle (26-Apr) : waiting for a pass rusher.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes between picks in the 3rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 3rd. Hate this phone
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 4rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes in the 4
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 7 minutes between picks in the 2nd round
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : Sorry to bitch, but the headline writers in that section absolutely mislead, or don't know how to read. It is maddening
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : No thanks. Not a dependable guy to be in the right place and run the right route. Dumb as a box of rocks.
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : Losing 2nd round pick for a one year rental, not ideal. Especially a headcase.
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Pickens for Jaire may be interesting. Definitely not sure we want Pickens long term.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : No.Absolutely not
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : NO NO NO NO NO NO!!1 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
dhazer (25-Apr) : scenario: Our main prospects are off the board when our pick comes around, do we just throw a 2nd round pick at Pittsburgh for Pickens
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