mi_keys
10 years ago

I'm disappointed with this reply... tell Schefter, Werder, Florio, Nate Davis, etc. how preposterous this is.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



The media generally praising the Packers draft didn't stop you from wailing and gnashing your teeth. It's a bit rich that you trot this out when they vaguely agree with you.

Also, they aren't in the business of in depth football analysis and insight. They're in the business of selling subscriptions and hits to their website. Sports media will throw names and exciting transactions and speculate to hell using very rudimentary lines of thinking as the basis because people will flock to it, especially during the offseason. Just because someone from the sports media suggests something, doesn't make it gospel.

Also, one of the articles you posted suggesting we could/should go for Graham was before we signed Shields and Peppers and before we drafted 3 wide receivers, 1 tight end and picked up Lyerla as an undrafted free agent. It's outdated.
Born and bred a cheesehead
mi_keys
10 years ago

Where do Harvin and Michael Bennett fall in this? I'm not sure why neither was mentioned? It's too bad you had to bring up Marshawn...a guy Rodgers wanted. A guy that made great sense for us. We really missed on that.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Mised Bennett going off the starters list on pro football reference because he was drafted by Seattle (they list most players draft position), then left to Tampa, then came back. He was on a 1 year $3M contract. Not exactly blowing the bank. He's essentially replaced Clemons who's now gone to Jacksonville. Almagamated Harvin and Rice because both were out injured basically the entire year. Rice had 1 reception. Harvin 15. Neither are the reason they won last year. Point still stands: they've built the vast majority of that team that won by drafting significantly better than everyone else between 2010-12.

Edit: by the way, I really wanted to draft Marshawn Lynch back in the day. Thought I was wrong. Then he found himself in Seattle. At the time, I was okay not making that deal because of how ineffectul he had become at the end of his days in Buffalo. Relatively low risk with potential high end return though, and it paid off for Seattle. Oh well, we've got Lacy now.
Born and bred a cheesehead
steveishere
10 years ago



Also, one of the articles you posted suggesting we could/should go for Graham was before we signed Shields and Peppers and before we drafted 3 wide receivers, 1 tight end and picked up Lyerla as an undrafted free agent. It's outdated.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



two of them were actually and the other one was just a guy listing teams that were likely to have late round draft picks. unless we're thinking that guy thinks Atlanta, New England, and Indianapolis won't be very good on offense.
uffda udfa
10 years ago

The media generally praising the Packers draft didn't stop you from wailing and gnashing your teeth. It's a bit rich that you trot this out when they vaguely agree with you.

Also, they aren't in the business of in depth football analysis and insight. They're in the business of selling subscriptions and hits to their website. Sports media will throw names and exciting transactions and speculate to hell using very rudimentary lines of thinking as the basis because people will flock to it, especially during the offseason. Just because someone from the sports media suggests something, doesn't make it gospel.

Also, one of the articles you posted suggesting we could/should go for Graham was before we signed Shields and Peppers and before we drafted 3 wide receivers, 1 tight end and picked up Lyerla as an undrafted free agent. It's outdated.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Are we comparing draftniks and regular NFL media guys? That is where your richness is found. BTW, I don't care who likes or doesn't like something but I figure you, or most, are impressed by such things. To validate something I feel passionate about in a debate, with national media guys opinions (to show that they must be crazy, too), after being insulted some, was nice and refreshing for me.

Ironically, there have not been that many teams tied to Graham as a potential landing spot. Why is Green Bay?

Do you think drafting unknowns vs. adding a superstar would change the opinion? I've seen plenty POST draft pieces and cited them, here, that are in favor of this. It seems that they don't hold unknowns in the same regard as Packers fans do when we're talking about a Jimmy Graham type of player. In another thread I mentioned that I felt too many thought "well stocked at a position" was just having bodies at a position. Every team in the NFL has plenty of bodies for each position...it is the quality not the quantity that matters. We've fielded our share of horrible ILB's and S's over the last few years but the positions were "well stocked" with numbers at the positions. Rodgers, Quarless, Bostick, Lyerla, Perillo and Taylor is hardly "well stocked".

BTW, I saw in a Tyler Dunne chat, today, that he thinks Finley isn't out of the picture yet. Obviously, if Finley is back, then Graham makes no sense. With his injury concerns he could probably be had for a pretty reasonable deal. It would be fun to be debating keeping Finley around vs. Cobb or Jordy had Finley not suffered the injury. Jimmy Graham will have to do. [aiee]



Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
10 years ago
I wouldn't keep Finley around over Cobb either. Part of the reason Finley never lived up to the hype is because Cobb showed up and started taking away a lot of they plays they'd have drawn up for Finley. That's the danger of thinking of these pass catchers as TEs and separating them, as far as filling a 53 man roster there's not much difference between having a Finley or Graham or a Cobb, they function basically the same no matter what you label them as.
mi_keys
10 years ago

I posted a blurb today from a reputable national sports source that brought up that Ron Wolf lamented he never gave Favre enough weapons.



One last item tonight since you persist with this one as well. Relatively speaking, Rodgers has not lacked for receiving threats in his time here. He's lacked for a supporting defense most years. He's dealt with shoddy offensive lines. He's dealt with poor running back play at times. The receiving group though, he's pretty much always had a good stable of receiving threats.

Rodgers has never had a line of Clifton, Whale, Flanagan, Rivera and Tauscher all in their prime. God what I'd give to see that.

If this general trend continues, it's not going to be a lack of receiving threats over Rodgers' tenure that Ted Thompson laments.
Born and bred a cheesehead
uffda udfa
10 years ago

two of them were actually and the other one was just a guy listing teams that were likely to have late round draft picks. unless we're thinking that guy thinks Atlanta, New England, and Indianapolis won't be very good on offense.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Who knows how New England, Altanta or Indy will be? All of the aforementioned could use a dynamic pass catching TE just like Green bay could. The national media realizes Gronk can't stay healthy, Tony Gonzalez is retired, and Luck could use a big time safety blanket especially with their middling rushing attack. Indy is the one team that doesn't seem to fit based on not having something at TE and then having nothing. Perhaps, they were brought up because Grigson made the ballsy and failed ( as of now ) deal for Trent Richardson. Indy would be giving up first round picks 3 years in a row if they added Graham while he's tagged. To me, Indy makes little sense based on the fact they appear to have been very recently burned by a bold move.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


uffda udfa
10 years ago

One last item tonight since you persist with this one as well. Relatively speaking, Rodgers has not lacked for receiving threats in his time here. He's lacked for a supporting defense most years. He's dealt with shoddy offensive lines. He's dealt with poor running back play at times. The receiving group though, he's pretty much always had a good stable of receiving threats.

Rodgers has never had a line of Clifton, Whale, Flanagan, Rivera and Tauscher all in their prime. God what I'd give to see that.

If this general trend continues, it's not going to be a lack of receiving threats over Rodgers' tenure that Ted Thompson laments.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Rodgers has been given a very solid WR group. He's still never been given someone the ilk of Jimmy Graham. Graham is special. 6'7 and 4.53. I think of this similarly to the way I wished the Moss deal would've happened instead of seeing him and Brady rip up the league. I feel like we were cheated out of some incredible moments with TT's failure to cough up a mid rounder. Perhaps, he laments that as well and is willing to go bold to right that wrong and it was a wrong.

Your post is spot on... I just wish to see a special QB play with a special talent before both Favre and Rodgers are a memory only seeing a little of Sterling Sharpe paired with that dynamic QB duo over the 30 years we'll get to enjoy them. Just give Rodgers his Sterling type.

BTW, you'll take this as a dig and it isn't meant as one... Mike Wahle is almost always typed as "Whale" when I see his name in forums. I wonder why that is?


Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


mi_keys
10 years ago

BTW, you'll take this as a dig and it isn't meant as one... Mike Wahle is almost always typed as "Whale" when I see his name in forums. I wonder why that is?

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Whoops. Because almost no one cares enough about offensive lineman to pay attention?
Born and bred a cheesehead
Zero2Cool
10 years ago
Trading first round picks for any non QB is foolish, period. Quit trying to defend that, there is no defense! The Packers should be trading their 1st round picks for multiple 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Jimmy Graham has more drops than Jermichael Finley over the last two seasons and would cost the Packers 10-12 million a year. That means the Packers would losee Jordy Nelson and/or Randall Cobb.

The Packers need a blocking TE, not a receiving TE. The Packers have a solid running back now.

I am astonished anyone thinks Jimmy Graham is worth two 1's in the Packers offense. He's a cog in the system player for the Packers, not a system maker.
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