buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

Your points are good ones, buckeye, but you also don't let a potential star, and Lyerla has that kind of talent, go to hang onto fringe position players that are only good at special teams.

I would be livid with Ted Thompson if he was keeping less talented guys on the roster for comfort level. I love John Kuhn although he's declining rapidly. Ryan Taylor is just okay.



Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Key word "potential", lots of guys every year with "potential" never make it for one reason or another, like I said, let him make the team, and turn that potential into proven talent, then you can start letting guys like Kuhn and Taylor go.

That would be in 2015, not 2014.




I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
uffda udfa
10 years ago
Nope...that would be 2014... not 2015. Do you want to keep Ryan Taylor or John Kuhn over Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Davante Adams because all Ha Ha and Davante have is potential? Lyerla belongs in the same breath with these guys because that's where his talent level is at. Unless he goes cuckoo crazy, you would be insane to cut Lyerla in favor of Ryan Taylor.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
10 years ago

Key word "potential", lots of guys every year with "potential" never make it for one reason or another, like I said, let him make the team, and turn that potential into proven talent, then you can start letting guys like Kuhn and Taylor go.

That would be in 2015, not 2014.



Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



I could easily see Taylor let for for someone like Lyerla. You don't cut starters for unproven guys with potential but guys whose only contribution is ST are fair game. I would put Taylor and Bostick on the same low rung of the TE list and both are there for different reasons. Most teams would take a guy with higher potential at an actual position over a guy with less potential that's a special teams specialist. Lyerla may end up being completely awful at everything but if he turns out to look like he can actually play TE then Taylor could be gone.
buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

Nope...that would be 2014... not 2015. Do you want to keep Ryan Taylor or John Kuhn over Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Davante Adams because all Ha Ha and Davante have is potential? Lyerla belongs in the same breath with these guys because that's where his talent level is at. Unless he goes cuckoo crazy, you would be insane to cut Lyerla in favor of Ryan Taylor.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Dix and Adams are fricken draft choices, don't compare them to Lyerla.


Fine your right, let's just dump all the veterans because we have a bunch of young guys with potential.

The problem, you don't have veteran to teach them how to actually play The pro game, , then all you get is a bunch of young guys running around wondering why they are getting beat.

I'm with you, get rid of all the proven veterans, because championship teams are always made up of a bunch of young guys with potential.

Potential and "talent" are the last things Lyerla has to worry about.

My original point, can we wait until the guy makes the team before we start cutting veterans?

I'm guessing guys like Quarless Bostic, Stoneburner, and Taylor aren't going to just lay down and hand Lylerla their spot on the 53 man roster.

Bostic and Stoneburner were in the same boat last year and made it, I don't think they will go away quietly.

Happens every year, Packers draft picks and UDFA's are always over-valued by the fans, then when they don't become immediate contibutors, they get labled "scrubs" or busts.
This happens every year,

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
uffda udfa
10 years ago
Yes, Dix and Adams are draft choices but Lyerla's talent is on par with their level. Why would you cut a talent like him in favor of Ryan Taylor? You're acting like cutting Ryan Taylor would be akin to killing our SB chances. With, or without Lyerla, Ryan Taylor may get the axe. Same goes for Kuhn.

If LaDarius Perkins comes in and rushes for 400+ yards in the pre-season and looks good with the starters and we keep John Kuhn over him, I'd be pretty bent out of shape. I do love John Kuhn...adds a lot of intangibles to the team but the bell is tolling for him. No way I let a potential stud get cut so I can keep a guy in decline.

The two people you're focused on are two guys we don't need. Kuhn wasn't even a sure thing to come back to us. We'll have to see our crop in pre-season, but if a guy like Adrian Hubbard along with Perkins light it up, I don't want Kuhn and Taylor back because they produced in the past.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

Yes, Dix and Adams are draft choices but Lyerla's talent is on par with their level. Why would you cut a talent like him in favor of Ryan Taylor? You're acting like cutting Ryan Taylor would be akin to killing our SB chances. With, or without Lyerla, Ryan Taylor may get the axe. Same goes for Kuhn.

If LaDarius Perkins comes in and rushes for 400+ yards in the pre-season and looks good with the starters and we keep John Kuhn over him, I'd be pretty bent out of shape. I do love John Kuhn...adds a lot of intangibles to the team but the bell is tolling for him. No way I let a potential stud get cut so I can keep a guy in decline.

The two people you're focused on are two guys we don't need. Kuhn wasn't even a sure thing to come back to us. We'll have to see our crop in pre-season, but if a guy like Adrian Hubbard along with Perkins light it up, I don't want Kuhn and Taylor back because they produced in the past.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Now you're changing the scenario, you're original statement, Lyerla could free up 2 spots, Kuhn and Taylor, because he has that much potential.

My point which you I guess don't want to acknowledge is, LET THE GUY MAKE THE TEAM FIRST, before getting rid of proven veterans.

And NO I am not acting like The Packers chances of winning a SuperBowl hinges on whether Ryan Taylor makes the team or not.

DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!!!!!!

Pre-season if for rookies to excel, and get noticed by the coaches so they make the team, they usually do this against other rookies, that is why not many rookies are starters at the beginning of the year.

You are good at changing topics and scenarios on the fly, let me ask you this.

What happens if Sean Richardson beats out Ha Ha for the staring S position?

Richardson is taller, he weighs more, he is just as fast, 2 years ago he was the UDFA gem Ted found and was going to solve The Packers S problem.

Richardson was injured, but hey he is healthy now, he just might be better than Clinton-Dix, will that make Ha Ha a bust from the get go if he doesn't start day 1?


I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
uffda udfa
10 years ago
What scenario has changed? I said before we started debating the merits of letting Lyerla go that, yes, in theory, he could clear two roster spots, which, in effect, really only nets you one.

I do acknowledge he needs to make the team same as John Kuhn and Ryan Taylor. You seem to indicate Lyerla has to make it but Kuhn and Taylor are already there but need to be kicked off for him to make it. Not so... Kuhn and Taylor are fighting for a job in the same way Lyerla is so I would say your premise is flawed.

Not sure how you want me to answer your scenario... If Richardson is the better player he should start. Doesn't always happen due to draft status and contract status but that's what should happen.

No, it wouldn't make Ha Ha a bust if Richardson is the starter. Ha Ha may not be ready. We don't know... the thing is we pretty much know Ha Ha is making the team. I don't believe there has ever been a scenario where a team cut a 1st rounder right after drafting him.

What I think you are missing is Kuhn and Taylor are fringe members of this roster (Kuhn didn't used to be) and Lyera, from talent perspective, is a 1st round kind of a guy. John Kuhn and Ryan Taylor are not and were not ever anywhere near 1st round talent guys.

If you really think about what you're saying, you sound like you would've been the type of fan who was happy to see Sam Shields get cut when he was a talented UDFA in favor of keeping ST's ace, Jarrett Bush. We obviously kept both, but if a choice had to be made I would've preferred Shields because of the upside we saw with him. You probably would've been screaming you wanted the guy who downed a punt every 3rd or 4th game vs. a guy who turned into one of the cornerstones (no pun intended) of this team. I recall Joe Whitt saying Shields would've been a 1st rounder with his talent. He proved to be right. Thank God we didn't cut the talented Sam Shields in favor of a fringe member of our roster.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

What scenario has changed? I said before we started debating the merits of letting Lyerla go that, yes, in theory, he could clear two roster spots, which, in effect, really only nets you one.

I do acknowledge he needs to make the team same as John Kuhn and Ryan Taylor. You seem to indicate Lyerla has to make it but Kuhn and Taylor are already there but need to be kicked off for him to make it. Not so... Kuhn and Taylor are fighting for a job in the same way Lyerla is so I would say your premise is flawed.

Not sure how you want me to answer your scenario... If Richardson is the better player he should start. Doesn't always happen due to draft status and contract status but that's what should happen.

No, it wouldn't make Ha Ha a bust if Richardson is the starter. Ha Ha may not be ready. We don't know... the thing is we pretty much know Ha Ha is making the team. I don't believe there has ever been a scenario where a team cut a 1st rounder right after drafting him.

What I think you are missing is Kuhn and Taylor are fringe members of this roster (Kuhn didn't used to be) and Lyera, from talent perspective, is a 1st round kind of a guy. John Kuhn and Ryan Taylor are not and were not ever anywhere near 1st round talent guys.

If you really think about what you're saying, you sound like you would've been the type of fan who was happy to see Sam Shields get cut when he was a talented UDFA in favor of keeping ST's ace, Jarrett Bush. We obviously kept both, but if a choice had to be made I would've preferred Shields because of the upside we saw with him. You probably would've been screaming you wanted the guy who downed a punt every 3rd or 4th game vs. a guy who turned into one of the cornerstones (no pun intended) of this team. I recall Joe Whitt saying Shields would've been a 1st rounder with his talent. He proved to be right. Thank God we didn't cut the talented Sam Shields in favor of a fringe member of our roster.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 




Again, don't care what I sound like to you, and you are completely wrong "of what kind of fan I am", and I don't really care, what you think.
You must have been on the debate team at school, always trying to find a way to validate your point.

The topic was real simple, you stated Lyerla could free up 2 spots on the roster,

I said let's let him make the team 1st before we start cutting proven veterans.

The difference between you and me, you think you know how to evaluate talent and know how to build a successful roster for the Packers.

I know I don't have a clue how Ted and Co. think, I just know that Ted doesn't willy nilly resign guys just to cut them and he doesn't cut guys who are proven commodities.

I also don't have any problem with any player Ted and Mike decide to keep.

At the end of TC, whoever runs out on that field are the guys Ted has decided to represent The Packers and you won't here me saying "they should have cut this guy" or they should have kept that guy.
You will never hear me say "this guy or that guy sucks", you will never hear me call anyone of these guys "scrubs"

Every one of these guys have worked their entire life to become NFL players, some have had it more easily than others, at the end of the day it's not always the 53 most talented guys who make up a winning roster, it's the 53 guys who know what it means to be part of a team, and to play as a team not individuals.

That's the kind of fan I am, and have taken a lot of grief from some on this forum for being that type of fan.

Again, I don't care.

There's a reason The Packers are never in "Cap hell" anymore, it's because Ted does show a little loyalty to the guys he brings in.


I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
uffda udfa
10 years ago
So, you would've been fine seeing Sam Shields cut in favor of Jarrett Bush? I smiled at the debate team comment... never was on any debate team.

You're free to be any kind of fan you wish to be same as me. Would love for you to tell me what you were getting at with your Richardson/Dix example? Still not sure I get it.

I admire the fact you won't call an NFL player a scrub...I wish I had that in me to be that way. Bad play is bad play, though, regardless of how hard you worked to get in position to make bad plays.

We will see who makes the team. The good news is it'll all be roses for you. If Taylor and Kuhn get cut and Lyerla stays you'll be happy because Ted Thompson picked him to stay and that's what works for you. It would be nice to be that kind of fan.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


buckeyepackfan
10 years ago

So, you would've been fine seeing Sam Shields cut in favor of Jarrett Bush? I smiled at the debate team comment... never was on any debate team.

You're free to be any kind of fan you wish to be same as me. Would love for you to tell me what you were getting at with your Richardson/Dix example? Still not sure I get it.

I admire the fact you won't call an NFL player a scrub...I wish I had that in me to be that way. Bad play is bad play, though, regardless of how hard you worked to get in position to make bad plays.

We will see who makes the team. The good news is it'll all be roses for you. If Taylor and Kuhn get cut and Lyerla stays you'll be happy because Ted Thompson picked him to stay and that's what works for you. It would be nice to be that kind of fan.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



You're already picking your favorites, which means if one of them don't make the team, hey you'll be happy because that will give you another reason to complain.

Just for the record, since I guess I have to say it again, I hope Lyerla becomes the "steal of the century" but he isn't anything special right now, he is just another UDFA trying to make an impression on the coaches.

I don't remember ever saying anything about Bush and Shields, but hey you keep posting it and the gullible ones will believe I said it.

You just proved my point, you think you know who is playing poorly and who is not.
Get a clue, you can't evaluate a player by what you see on tv.

That's why I leave it up to Ted and Co. You got a problem with the talent, then take it up with them.

There are some on this forum who have actually played the game and know what I am talking about.

They are the ones who used to post here all the time, but have realized it is futile to try and actually talk Packer football without getting into these stupid debates.


I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
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