play2win
10 years ago

The draft is full of players who get drafted when "so many people" project him being available later in the draft. If you try to make sense out of it you will drive yourself crazy. At best we may wonder why did that particular GM like that particular player so much.

The questions are why did Ted like him so much and did Ted think he would have been available later in the draft. We may never truly know the answer to the first (although I am sure Ted will tell us) but the obvious answer to the second question is no he didn't. At least he didn't think he would be available with his next pick.

I love it how so many people (not you wpr) talk about "THE BOARD" as if there is some official draft board that everyone uses. The thing is there are 32 "THE BOARD"s and the most important thing for any any GM is where the guy is on their board.

It doesn't matter if some draft expert that is going by what some other draft expert quoted another draft expert as saying about a guy. All that matters is what Ted thinks of the guy.

I understand that some people are certain that the universe, or at least the football universe, revolves around them, so if they have never personally seen the guy play or they have never heard of the guy that means that the guy sucks. However, I am fairly certain that Ted has seen the guy play. That, IMO makes his opinion much more valid than those who have not.

I am not talking about Uff da and his opinion about Dix. That is a valid opinion. I'll still take Teds over Uff da's but at least Uffda has seen Dix play (at least I assume he has) and doesn't like him. That's fine. I'm talking about those people who admit they have never seen the guy play or have never even heard of him but still claim he is a crappy pick. Its like saying a movie sucks without having even seen the trailer (that is only a valid assumption with Nicholas Cage movies)

As for relying on all those strengths and weaknesses sections you may want to temper your expectations. I was listening to a radio program earlier in the week and they did a segment where they read off a guy's strengths and weaknesses without saying who it was and the panel members had to guess the round the guy was projected at and almost every one had picked the guy to be drafted lower than projected. A couple said they wouldn't even draft the guy based on the S & W and they were projected to be 2nd or 3rd round picks.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



So true and well said sschind.

I was looking at both Bears selections in R2 and R3, both DTs, Ego Ferguson and Will Sutton, both picks made way before Khyri Thornton, and I like Thornton better than both players. However, I had never heard of Thornton before.

I'm an ASU guy too, but think Sutton will be too small to be really effective.

As fans we put a lot of energy into following these players and gathering info, for months in the offseason. I can see where some people get upset when their guy gets passed over. And, yeah, while we have to trust in Ted and his staff, there are times where a fan may still be right, in spite of all the resources teams throw at this.

I remember the day I was literally screaming for Marcus Colston in the 7th round...

Point is, the draft really can be that much of a crap shoot. Even the best make mistakes. But, Ted and his staff have a track record that is pretty damn good.

Fans follow the draft for fun. For teams, it is so much more.
sschind
10 years ago

all true.

I suppose I am saying that people are naturally inquisitive. We like to know how something works. We like to know why something works. When it comes to the NFL draft we like to know the story behind the scene. Usually there are 3 or 4 stories that we would find interesting.

Uncle Teddy certainly does work his board the way he thinks is best. He isn't perfect but then no one is. He certainly is right more times than he is wrong. He has made a career out of taking players sooner than others would.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Oh, absolutely, I understood what you meant and I agree. I wasn't trying to explain anything to you in particular. I was just using your post as a jumping off point. It does make you wonder why he took this guy when others may not have looked so highly upon him. That is totally a natural reaction for a fan to have. That is painfully obvious simply by reading the opposite reactions on this site. One guy loves the pick and the other guy hates it. Why?

I rely very heavily on these "experts" opinions since I don't follow college football at all and I don't know much if anything about these guys. Maybe that is why I don't get as worked up about these picks as some of you do. I don't have my own opinion on them so I tend to think that the guys who study them know more about them than those who may not. If you watch a lot of college football and have strong, knowledge based, opinions fine but even then, I doubt most people have studied the film as much as the GMs have. Especially when it comes down to the 3rd round and later guys.

Your part about him making a career out of taking players sooner than others would may seem very obvious to us but I would venture to guess that the vast majority of fans feel that way about their GMs as well.

sschind
10 years ago

This is not a criticism of Thornton. I am sick of hearing the talking heads on tv or the media in general tell us that so and so had a good game against a certain team.m As if that is such a wonderful accomplishment.

At least 3 times last night I heard them say that a certain player had a good game against Illinois as if that validated their selection in the 2nd or 3rd round. HELLO they were playing the pansies of Illinois. If he didn't have a fantastic game against Illinois he should not even be looking for a job in the NFL. Naturally we are told that other players "had a good game" against SEC or ACC teams or in the National Championship game. it still doesn't impress me very much. One game does not a career make. One game does not tell me how good he will do lined up against the best players week in and week out.

Or like the above quote. Thornton had a good game in the post season senior game or someone else in a bowl game. I want to hear about players who had a great career not just one game a season.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I agree. I also feel sort of the same way about highlight reels. I mean sure, its nice to see the guy you took make some nice plays but I'm pretty sure players like Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russel had pretty impressive highlight reels as well. I'm guessing if you cherry picked plays you could pick out at least a half a dozen highlight reel plays from every player drafted that would make them look like first round talent.

Zero2Cool
10 years ago

This is not a criticism of Thornton. I am sick of hearing the talking heads on tv or the media in general tell us that so and so had a good game against a certain team.m As if that is such a wonderful accomplishment.

At least 3 times last night I heard them say that a certain player had a good game against Illinois as if that validated their selection in the 2nd or 3rd round. HELLO they were playing the pansies of Illinois. If he didn't have a fantastic game against Illinois he should not even be looking for a job in the NFL. Naturally we are told that other players "had a good game" against SEC or ACC teams or in the National Championship game. it still doesn't impress me very much. One game does not a career make. One game does not tell me how good he will do lined up against the best players week in and week out.

Or like the above quote. Thornton had a good game in the post season senior game or someone else in a bowl game. I want to hear about players who had a great career not just one game a season.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I think the problem is outside of maybe Mel Kiper Jr and that McShay guy, no one really watches every single game and analyzes every single player. I doubt that they even do it. I think they should have regional people evaluate and also positional too. Something because there is no way one person can watch the game of over 200 teams playing 12+ games with rosters the size of 100 or so and know who is good at what and bad at what.
UserPostedImage
DarkaneRules
10 years ago
If he went to another school, people would probably know more about him. He went to a Southern Miss team with a terrible overall record. They looked at his individual performance within that, his fit in this scheme, and his ability to play three different techniques on the line.

93 Boyd, Josh DE 6-3 310 24 2 Mississippi State
95 Jones, Datone DE 6-4 285 23 2 UCLA
94 Thornton, Khyri DE 6-3 304 24 R Southern Miss
99 Worthy, Jerel DE 6-2 304 24 3 Michigan State

76 Daniels, Mike DT 6-0 300 25 3 Iowa
98 Guion, Letroy DT 6-4 315 26 7 Florida State
90 Raji, B.J. DT 6-2 337 27 6 Boston College

96 Neal, Mike DE/LB 6-3 285 26 5 Purdue
56 Peppers, Julius LB/DE 6-7 287 34 13 North Carolina

When you see it in profile, it looks like a really talented group with a lot of potential. Now we just need another linebacker to add to that particular group.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
play2win
10 years ago
Thornton Highlights 

Guy looks like he has some real power to his game. For Ted to go that high for him, they must really like what he can do. I believe it probably is based more on his versatility, where he can play pretty much any position on the line. That has to figure in during situations where you don't have a whole lot of time to sub.
gbguy20
10 years ago

Thornton Highlights 

Guy looks like he has some real power to his game. For Ted to go that high for him, they must really like what he can do. I believe it probably is based more on his versatility, where he can play pretty much any position on the line. That has to figure in during situations where you don't have a whole lot of time to sub.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



i love the move he throws down at :41
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play2win
10 years ago

i love the move he throws down at :41

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 



He's got some stuff! I'm telling you, Ted knows how important this pick was. We might be very, very happy with Khyri Thornton playing on our DL.

To me, it was a big risk pick. But, that's just to me. Ted found Mike Daniels in R4... pick 132... I'd have to say he has earned a decent measure of trust here.
DarkaneRules
10 years ago
UserPostedImage
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
10 years ago
I watched one of those highlight videos where it shows every snap in a game. Some things that stood out to me were:
- He penetrates into the backfield a lot
- When he doesn't penetrate, he doesn't get pushed off his spot much at all
- He was constantly hustling, which is impressive for a guy his size. He was already around the play, even downfield.
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packerfanoutwest (18m) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (20m) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (32m) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (3h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (3h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (3h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (3h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (3h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (3h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (3h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (3h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (4h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (4h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (4h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (4h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (4h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (5h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (5h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (5h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (5h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (6h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (6h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (6h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (7h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (8h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (8h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (9h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (9h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (9h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (9h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (9h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (9h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (9h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (9h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (9h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (9h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (9h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (9h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (9h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (9h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (9h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (9h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (9h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (9h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (9h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (10h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (10h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (10h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
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