Words I Like From McCarthy

gbguy20
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

You are tired of #5 and #6 guys doing jack shit? Who cares. Every year we end up with a good WR group, that's all that matters. Who gives a crap if your #5 guy was undrafted or late round guy, that's how you want it to be. If you have 3 or 4 good WRs at the top of your roster you don't waste high picks or $ on your #5.

Originally Posted by: steveishere

Did you even read what I said?

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musccy
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#22

You really got me there, listing 2 guys over a 14 year span.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

Fine, add Bill Schroeder (6th) Corey Bradford (5th), Ruvell Martin was a UDFA for San Diego before being picked up by the Packers. They all contributed. Donald and Boykin obviously have. I'm intrigued by Dorsey. Late round picks have been a key asset to the team at the WR position.

warhawk
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Senior Member

10 years ago

#23

Charles Johnson?
Didn't he get picked of the PS as well last year? I remember a lot of fans thinking he could be a player that could develop into something.

"The train is leaving the station."

gbguy20
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#24

Originally Posted by: musccy

Remember when there was talk that the packers werent surrounding brett with enough talent to throw to? Those were the schroeder and bradford days.

But seriously you have still missed the point. Moving on now....

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sschind
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Senior Member

10 years ago

#25

in 2012 we had 5 legitimate pass catching threats (Jennings, Jones, Driver, Nelson, Finley) and 1 very promising young guy (Cobb) At that point yeah, it really didn't matter who was our #5 and #6 receivers and we could afford to take late flyers on guys with potential. The thing is those late round picks and UDFAs are not picked to be an immediate help to the team. They are developmental type guys.

Now we have 2 legitimate pass catching threats (Nelson, Cobb) and 2 young guys that have showed not to entirely suck (Boykin and Quarless) though I am not sold entirely on either of them yet. We can't afford three years to develop new guys. I know rookie WRs don't often contribute much the first year even as first or second round guys so in that respect expecting a big help from the draft is maybe getting our hopes up. I also realize that many high round picks do not pan out. But the truth is they probably have a better chance than a 6th or 7th rounder.

Regardless of whether or not you think WR is a position of need, I happen to think it is, you can not deny that our pass catching corps as of right now is vastly depleted when compared to what we had during the 2012 season. We may not be at a critical stage but we no longer have one of the top pass catching teams in the league. We are average at best and we may not even be the best in the division any more.

With Rodgers we will always have a bit of a cushion but those who think we can plug and play any guy off the street and not miss a beat will find out soon enough that getting the ball to the receiver is only half the equation.

musccy
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#26

Originally Posted by: sschind

Driver was on the backside of his career by 2012. Finley has never quite been what he was in the 2009 season, so the implied cumulative strength of those 5 players is misleading. I understand what you're saying that the Packers currently have fewer proven commodities, but I think it's safe to say they have 4 very reliable, proven receiving threats right now. Boykin in 2013 compares very favorably to anything Jones has ever done with the exception of the 14 TDs.

Of course I'd feel better with more depth, but I also don't think we're in dire straits. Yes, we'll have to rely on young targets but look how Boykin stepped up. We didn't have a clue who he was 365 days ago, do we know Dorsey or Bostick can't do that? I'm confident Uncle Ted will pick up at least 1 WR/TE in the first 5 rounds, and we'll be in OK shape in 2014 relying on Cobb, Nelson, Quarless, and Boykin, while letting newbies slowly develop and contribute.

sschind
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

10 years ago

#27

Originally Posted by: musccy

I do agree that we are not in dire straits but I don't think I am as confidant as you are.

I think Driver, had he been leaned on, would have performed at least as well as Boykin did last year. At least he was a proven commodity. I also think most people are a little higher on Boykin than I am right now. At this point he is kind of exactly what gbguy was talking about. One of those guys that comes on and shows flashes but then disappears into the background again.

I hope you are right though. I'd gladly be wrong on this one.

Laser Gunns
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

10 years ago

#28

comparing 2010 to now:

IMO

? = not sure on direct replacment

as far as pass-catchers go, we've added Boykin and Cobb to offset the losses of Driver and Jones, but (so far) have nobody filling Jennings and Finley's spot.

notably downgraded

-OLB: Walden for Perry (too many injuries so far, Walden was awful but at least he was on the field)

- FS: Nick Collins for ?

- WR: Greg Jennings for ?

-NT: Raji for Raji

- C: Scott Wells/EDS for ?

- TE: Jermichael Finley for ?

- DE: Pickett for ?

- ILB: Bishop for Jones

Replaced well enough, or of equal skill

= DE: Jenkins for Daniels/Jones

= SS: Peprah for Burnett

= LT: Chad Clifton for Bahktiari

= WR: Driver for Cobb

= WR: J.Jones for Boykin

= Outside CB: Shields for woodson

= College for Lang

notably Improved

+ RB: Eddie Lacy for Starks/ Brandon Jackson

+ Slot CB: Hayward/Hyde for Bush

MintBaconDrivel
Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!

texaspackerbacker
100% (Exalted)
Veteran Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#29

If James Jones was considered a legitimate receiving threat - and he probably was, then certainly Jarrett Boykin is just as much, if not more of a legitimate threat. Same story with Quarless compared to Finley.

The bottom line, though, is Aaron Rodgers makes all of these guys a lot better, and whoever ends up on the receiving end will be a threat - if he can only catch a well thrown ball (what was the prime complaint again about both Jones and Finley over their careers?)

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If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

steveishere
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#30

As far as WR go production wise compared to 2010 we replaced Jennings with Jordy (call it equal), Driver with Cobb (upgrade), and Jones with Boykin (equal enough production wise). We don't have anyone as of yet that we know of to be the 3rd outside type WR to cover what Jordy did that season.

porky88
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#31

Andrew Quarless averaged 9.8 yards per reception last season. Finley averaged 12 in 2013. Finley averaged 10.9 in 2011, which was his career low. His career average was 12.5. There’s a huge difference between the two. Quarless is a safety valve. He doesn’t do much downfield. He’s just a guy. Production was rarely a problem for Finley. It always came back to health. In that regard, losing Finley doesn’t sting as much because they played a third of their games without him. However, don’t mistake Quarless as an acceptable replacement for the games Finley did indeed play. He’s going to break your heart if you do.

I do like Jarrett Boykin, though. He’s going to replace James Jones with ease. Re-watch week 7 (Browns) and week 8 (Vikings) if you can. He was outstanding in those games. He’s a very impressive route runner. I think he’s a breakout candidate for this offense.

I also think we can’t look at the offense the same way we did a few years ago. The Packers can run the ball now, so they don’t need four or five receivers contributing as was the case in 2011. Eddie Lacy is going to account for a huge chunk of the offense’s production. Between his presence and the emergence of Boykin, the Packers of plenty of offensive threats for 2014.

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isocleas2
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Member

10 years ago

#32

So we've lost Driver, Jennings, Jones, and Finley and the only additions of note to replace them are Boykin and Bostick. You guys are ok with that? I know Cobb has come into his own and Jordy is still playing great but they're both free agents next year. If Ted doesn't take a WR or TE in the first 3 rounds I'll be shocked and frankly disappointed he isn't doing his job.

I'm still hoping we grab one of the top tight ends in the first and take a flyer on a receiver in the 4th or 5th. With Lacy and the running game taking greater precedence I think a TE is the more prudent need and more useful. I can see a lot of 2 WR/2 TE sets next year where defenses are kept guessing on whether to play the run or pass.

Zero2Cool
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Elite Member

10 years ago

#33

Originally Posted by: isocleas2

Wait a tick ... do you not know who the rookie of the year is? Allow me to introduce you to Eddie Lacy. He plays RB for the Packers and he's as much a part of the offense as the WR and TE are. And his addition gave balance to the offense.

Donald Driver - probably on the roster one year longer than he needed to be so the #5 easily replaces him.
James Jones - Jarrett Boykin easily replaces him
Greg Jennings - Randall Cobb consumes his catches, no real loss there except more salary cap by letting the Vikings over pay him
Jermichael Finley - there is only three or five TE who can match his talent and effectiveness on the field. Some naive fools with bemoan about his drops, but look it up, Jimmy Graham drops more yet no one says boo about him. Why? Because Graham doesn't speak his mind freely as most of us fans whine that players don't do!!! Irony?

Brandon Bostick has the measurables to equal Finley, but I don't see him being as much of a threat. Defenses really fear Finley and you could tell. Finley's last contract wasn't based on his production as much as it was based on what holes his presence opens for the rest of the offense.

DakotaT
100% (Exalted)
Select Member

10 years ago

#34

I think Rodgers' injury last season has a lot to do with what appears to be a change in our offense. We absolutely need to have a resurgence of the running game to protect Aaron. We have three very capable running backs. What remains to be seen is if our new center Tretter and the return of Bulaga will make our offensive line better. Some in here aren't very impressed with Bacteria, but I think he has the "nasty" in him to be a very good run blocker.

play2win
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Senior Member

10 years ago

#35

We will draft another WR, maybe as high as R1. There are some special talents there, and ripe for the picking. The position is fine at this point, but one injury there could really hurt this team. I think Ted nails WR very early in this draft, just to be prudent, and to keep Aaron loaded with weapons.

I think many here will be surprised how well this team functions without Finley. Is he or is he not a prima dona? Rarely do those players help to win championships in a team sport. More often, they are distractions to their teammates and to team focus. Quarless catches what is thrown to him and he is a great, willing blocker, more of a team player. Maybe we draft another TE, check that, we will draft another TE, and we will be fine.

This team is now just a handful of solid players away, along with some good fortune on the injury front, from contending again. S, ILB, WR (and I do think TE would be fine without an addition). Throw in another NT to work a solid rotation with Raji, and a backup C to develop and we are golden.

5 players. Ted Thompson has got to hit perfectly though in this draft. We need 5 players, rookies now, who will be key contributors in 2014, unless he dips back into FA after the draft/roster cutdowns and finds another gem. It is possible.

IMO, our glaring needs are at 3 positions: S, ILB and NT. And, this is trusting Tretter is the man at C. Everything else will be adding depth at key positions. Gravy.

Make no mistake. Mike McCarthy needs upgrades at all of those positions if he is going to realize success again, and his team is going to have to stay healthy. This is kind of a tall order, but it is possible.

musccy
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#36

Originally Posted by: isocleas2

Any FA signing is structured while still planning years down the road, so I'm willing to bet my car that Ted and co. have given a lot of thought to planning not only for Cobb and Nelson, but Boykin as well who becomes a RFA after this season.

I doubt anyone is "OK" with the departure of talented players, either in the organization or this board, but you have to take calculated risks with a salary cap.

As I've said previously, nobody knew who Boykin was 200 days ago and the same could very well be said of White, Dorsey, Harper, or draft picks/FA signings. Ted almost always seems to pick up a late rounder/UDFA the week of the draft. We don't see them in practice daily, so we shouldn't necessarily assume the cupboards are bare just because we haven't seen production on the field (yet). You could argue that Ted has had his best success in the draft/UDFAs with WRs.

musccy
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#37

IMO, our glaring needs are at 3 positions: S, ILB and NT. And, this is trusting Tretter is the man at C. Everything else will be adding depth at key positions. Gravy.

Originally Posted by: play2win

I'm a little more nervous at C because we have seen very little from Tretter. This sort of contradicts my previous post about trusting what Ted has with guys we haven't seen yet at WR, but the difference is the white/harper/dorseys are needed as #4 WRs and we need to fill in with a starter at C.

I'm cautiously optimistic with Hyde at S but clearly depth isn't there.

play2win
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

10 years ago

#38

Originally Posted by: musccy

That is a good point musccy.

There are many players who were drafted late or signed as UDFAs who still might come up big for this team. Barrington in the middle is one I am looking forward to seeing this season. Andy Mulumba is another who may develop into a solid OLB for us. I really like Chris Banjo and Sean Richardson, and I'm hopeful both can make significant contributions in 2014. Banjo seems to play way bigger than his size, and Richardson has the size and if he puts it all together, he could be special. I want to see what he and Hayward do together on the same field. Kevin Dorsey and Miles White both could surprise at WR, as could Chris Harper. Lane Taylor at G could take some very large steps forward, as they were pretty high on him last year.

play2win
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

10 years ago

#39

Originally Posted by: musccy

Yeah, they certainly have put a lot of faith in JC Tretter taking over that very important starting C position. Given that, I believe they really, really like what they've seen from him. They must. I can trust the position is his, and that they will add depth at the position in this draft.

DoddPower
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Veteran Member

10 years ago

#40

Originally Posted by: play2win

I think it's just confidence in Tretter AND that they will land a decent player in the draft or through UDFA's or roster cut-down free agents. Between those three options (and possible unrestricted free agents, still), I think they feel an adequate at worst replacement can be found via competition in training camp. I never thought Evan. D. Smith was anything more than adequate-to-average, anyway. He is replaceable, and in fact, it's reasonable to believe that he can be upgraded.

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