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11 years ago

If I remember correctly, the cupboards were bare under Sherman coach/GM. We were in salary cap hell and very few young and talented players to replace aging veterans. Sherman ran the Packers as if they were one player away from the Super Bowl every year and never thinking about the future.

What I'd like to see Ted Thompson do is shore up weaknesses with 2nd tier free agents instead of relying on rookies. Very few rookies are impact players.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



yeah I have been yelled at by many on the board for daring to suggest GB actually pick up some talent via the free agent market. It doesn't have to be the break the bank and or over the hill players. There are many decent 2nd tier players out there. Uncle Teddy doesn't even have to go that route every single year. Year in and year out having one of the youngest teams does not win championships. They need to have quality seasoned veterans along with young and developing players.

It is as if Ted goes out of his way to "prove" his way is the only way. Out of a 52 man roster there is nothing wrong with having 10 players come in via the free agent route.
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texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

There's a big difference between complaining about someone and demanding he be replaced. The latter is the wrong course of action simply because he's proven he can do the job. Complaining I feel is something we all can do regardless.



I'm thoroughly surprised you have to ask, but read above for some clarity.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



This is NOT some problem that just came up now with the Rodgers injury, and it certainly isn't limited to the defense - if anything, the O Line is qualitatively worse than the defense.

Granted, there is a difference between complaining and demanding replacement, but aside from the fact that all the "demanding .... " by anybody here or other forums isn't gonna do shit to make it happen anyway, you have this: "complaining" implies "ho hum, he ain't perfect, but it's no big deal whether he continues doing it his way or not". In light of the total EXPOSURE of the job Ted Thompson has done with this team over the past few games, do you think "complaining" is enough? I never said I wanted Ted Thompson to drop dead or anything, I just wish he'd go off to a nice retirement - or as somebody said, going to (ruining) some other team.

I'm pretty sure it ain't gonna happen - I won't get my wish, and those ignoramuses "demanding" getting rid of Capers won't get their wish either, and we will just go back to having Aaron Rodgers mask all problems and winning games - which ain't too bad. It could be/could have been better, though.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DarkaneRules
11 years ago
I like the spirited debate here. Overall, I think we can agree that this shines the biggest light on Ted Thompson or at least I hope we can. The personnel and those who coach are ultimately his responsibility.

I can say that I disagree about which is worse. There are more players and total plays on the defensive side than the offensive side that are the problem but the space between them was much lower on Thursday that it has been in recent memory.

It will provide a much brighter light on the off season evaluation process that is one thing we know for certain.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
play2win
11 years ago
Fact is, we have not replaced the services lost to our defense when Jenkins left in FA, Collins was injured and Woodson went down and was not re-signed. 2011 season. 2012 season. Now 2013 season.

Add to that, the play of AJ Hawk has diminished greatly, and while his contract was negotiated down, we all now realize we need improved play there. Gaping hole next to him, two years after the loss of Bishop to injury?

Pass rush opposite Matthews. Where is that? When available, Perry has looked good. But, here we go now, player availability… when does that issue get addressed? We have gone almost 4 seasons now as one of the most injured teams in the NFL, and with ZERO accountability. ZERO. No changes to the way they do things in fitness and conditioning. Unbelievable.

This entire front office and coaching staff needs to look in the mirror.
DoddPower
11 years ago
Packers fans, and every other team with an elite QB with a 100 million dollar contract, is just going to have to get used to the fact that there are always going to be a few positions of weakness on their team. It's the reality of today's NFL. Teams like the Seahawks and 49'ers aren't having to deal with that yet. They are benefiting from years of high draft picks, and most of the star players playing under their "cheap" rookie contracts. That will change soon, especially for the Seahawks. I still think Kaepernick is average overall at best, but will have moments of greatness. Plus they seem to stay really damn healthy, relatively speaking, although their luck has been changing a little this season.

Obviously the above is no excuse to have a shitty team, but it's going to be very difficult and close to impossible to have a "complete" team. Especially once one factors in contracts like CM3, etc., into the picture. Teams in this situation just have to hope that their strengths can overcome their weaknesses. Generally speaking, I think the Packers do just that.

I think the Packers are almost as talented as any team in the league when relatively healthy, and would be a contender every year. If Rodgers is out, that changes everything, but that's the way these teams will be built most the time. How well would the Saints function without Brees? The Broncos without Manning? Patriots without Brady? I know they went 10-6 when he missed most of the season, but the reality is they still missed the playoffs. Also, an exception doesn't define the norm. Although to be fair, Mallet is probably a pretty damn good backup. Regardless, the Patriots still have some huge weaknesses, as well. Look at the Giants and Falcons this season. I remember many were predicting both of them as Super Bowl contenders at the the beginning of the season.

There are possibly better general managers than Ted Thompson out there, but there are ABSOLUTELY many worse. I truly think a lot of the problem with the Packers comes back to coaching, even with Rodgers healthy. Yes, the coaches failure ultimately comes back on Thompson, but I have seen McCarthy and Capers just be utterly EMBARRASSED and out coached many times. I also think, with the talent the Packers have, there are coaches out there that could get more out of their players.
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

Fact is, we have not replaced the services lost to our defense when Jenkins left in FA, Collins was injured and Woodson went down and was not re-signed. 2011 season. 2012 season. Now 2013 season.

Add to that, the play of AJ Hawk has diminished greatly, and while his contract was negotiated down, we all now realize we need improved play there. Gaping hole next to him, two years after the loss of Bishop to injury?

Pass rush opposite Matthews. Where is that? When available, Perry has looked good. But, here we go now, player availability… when does that issue get addressed? We have gone almost 4 seasons now as one of the most injured teams in the NFL, and with ZERO accountability. ZERO. No changes to the way they do things in fitness and conditioning. Unbelievable.

This entire front office and coaching staff needs to look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I sense more and more people are coming around.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but Hawk's play diminished? I tend to think he was always mediocre, and he improved - just a little bit anyway - this year (except for yesterday hahahaha)

I don't know what to think about the injury thing. There has been a LOT of that all around the league, but you're probably right about us getting hit worse than almost anyone else. Blame it purely on bad luck? Or explain it with some kind of story about inadequate fitness or whatever? I tend to go with the luck ...... but who knows.

I am also conflicted on Nick Perry. He certainly ain't flashy like Clay Matthews, but when he plays, good things seem to happen - so who knows there too.

A word to you Capers haters/Thompson defenders: In keeping with play2win's last line, I'll trade you the one for the other - get rid of Capers and get rid of Thompson too ......... but fuck it, who are we kidding? We all know, nobody is gonna get fired because we probably end up winning the division at 9-6-1 and who knows from there.


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Mucky Tundra
11 years ago

Packers fans, and every other team with an elite QB with a 100 million dollar contract, is just going to have to get used to the fact that there are always going to be a few positions of weakness on their team. It's the reality of today's NFL. Teams like the Seahawks and 49'ers aren't having to deal with that yet. They are benefiting from years of high draft picks, and most of the star players playing under their "cheap" rookie contracts. That will change soon, especially for the Seahawks. I still think Kaepernick is average overall at best, but will have moments of greatness. Plus they seem to stay really damn healthy, relatively speaking, although their luck has been changing a little this season.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

The NFL had been stacking the deck against winning teams previously with the salary cap and the scheduling based on division placement. But the new CBA tops both with the way rookie contracts are structured. Just compare Stafford and Bradfords rookie contracts vs Lucks. It's no longer a cap killer to draft in the top 10 2-3 years in a row. Now you get cheap, blue chip talent. And hell, when it's time to talk about a new contract, the first years of it probably aren't that bad.

“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
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"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
hardrocker950
11 years ago


There are possibly better general managers than Ted Thompson out there, but there are ABSOLUTELY many worse. I truly think a lot of the problem with the Packers comes back to coaching, even with Rodgers healthy. Yes, the coaches failure ultimately comes back on Thompson, but I have seen McCarthy and Capers just be utterly EMBARRASSED and out coached many times. I also think, with the talent the Packers have, there are coaches out there that could get more out of their players.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



More fans are starting to realize this reality. I agree with basically everything you said, but this part is the most disturbing.

I think mm is losing respect from the players (and fans) now that Aaron isn't there to make him look like an average/good coach.

I have been having doubts about Capers for a while now, but even the "casual" fans have taken notice. It is not often that the average fans are disappointed in a DC - which should say there is a problem.

And onward to TT. His stubborn ways have caught up with him finally, and many of us saw the train wreck coming. While the salary cap limits who you might be able to bring in- if you need a player, by all means make a move. I like that we have a team that is mostly home grown, but I see ZERO harm in bringing some veteran players aside from possible salary issues. If you need a RT, GO FUCKING GET ONE THAT YOU KNOW CAN PLAY! Need a safety - go get one! It takes too damn long to develop a full roster from draft picks - especially without that veteran leadership!
Mucky Tundra
11 years ago


I think Mike McCarthy is losing respect from the players (and fans) now that Aaron isn't there to make him look like an average/good coach.

Originally Posted by: hardrocker950 



You know I saw on another message board something similar to this. The poster pointed out no matter how bad the beating, McCarthy defends Capers and the scheme and blames the players. The poster wondered how long the players would allow McCarthy to dump on them in public while defending Capers and not holding him accountable in anyway beyond the "recurring issues" comment.
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
hardrocker950
11 years ago

You know I saw on another message board something similar to this. The poster pointed out no matter how bad the beating, McCarthy defends Capers and the scheme and blames the players. The poster wondered how long the players would allow McCarthy to dump on them in public while defending Capers and not holding him accountable in anyway beyond the "recurring issues" comment.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



I think there is truth in this. To continue to blame everything on the players is going to lose their respect. When you lose their respect, you will get less production from them - just like average Joe having a jerk boss who blames his employees for everything.

I liked Mike in the past, but I am starting to think differently of him after several games with playcalling that is nothing short of predictable. His meetings with the press post game are just as predictable after a loss - "recurring issues, good game plan, need to tackle, need to finish the game....yadda yadda..."

It is apparent that this team needs some fresh blood on their staff.
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dfosterf (47m) : According to the OTC cap figures, Miami has one minute to find 10.3 million in cap space lol
Zero2Cool (1h) : lol nice one
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Zero2Cool (2h) : Pelissero: Cooper Kupp to be released by the Rams.
dfosterf (3h) : OTC has increased Packers cap room to over 32 mil
Martha Careful (5h) : RIP Junior Bridgeman. An excellent businessman and NBA er
Zero2Cool (7h) : It's better to have $17m to use on players who will be on the field. That's why trade/release is talked
Zero2Cool (7h) : post june is $7m cap hit with $17m saving
Zero2Cool (7h) : oops meant $10m cap hit
Zero2Cool (7h) : And pre june is $10m savings
Zero2Cool (7h) : Can't make him play.
dhazer (7h) : I am curious why the big need to release Jaire, we have 29 million cap space we arent spending and would only gain $6 million/ make him play
Zero2Cool (8h) : Joey Bosa signed with Bills?
dfosterf (8h) : What they are offering is a left over case of Leinies from the Chippewa Falls plant
Zero2Cool (8h) : 27, 59, 91, 129 gets you Jaire and our 3rd
Zero2Cool (8h) : they give us those five, or even first four, they can have Jaire.
Zero2Cool (8h) : 27, 59, 91, 129 and 136 are only ones worth having of theirs.
dfosterf (8h) : What they don't have is cap space, at least presently at 5.6 mil
dfosterf (8h) : Poor bastards only have 11
Zero2Cool (9h) : Ravens ain't got crap for picks.
Zero2Cool (9h) : Aaron Rodgers is choosing between Steelers and Giants. The Vikings are officially out on him, per RapSheet
dfosterf (9h) : Current cap space 29.6 million.
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Mucky Tundra (16h) : beast, this is news to me! Tell me more about these, "draft picks." They seem mighty mysterious! 😉
beast (18h) : Yes, the Ravens have draft picks
dfosterf (19h) : Good luck to him.
Zero2Cool (20h) : Eric Stokes signs with Raiders
Martha Careful (21h) : Tyler Linderbaum C
Mucky Tundra (21h) : Cap space?
Zero2Cool (21h) : Do Ravens have anything we'd even entertain to have?
Mucky Tundra (23h) : I've seen trade ideas of Jaire going to the Ravens all offseason
beast (11-Mar) : A probably false rumor is suggesting CB Jaire Alexander is being traded to the Ravens, again probably false
beast (11-Mar) : Commanders might have a dominant offense the next 3 years at least
Zero2Cool (11-Mar) : San Francisco 49ers announced they have released DL Leonard Floyd.
Mucky Tundra (11-Mar) : Er getting traded twice like that
Mucky Tundra (11-Mar) : Huh, LT Laremy Tunsil traded from Houston to Washington. Never heard of a top OT getting traded in his career like that
Martha Careful (11-Mar) : Minnesota Vikings cornerback Byron Murphy Jr. is returning on a three-year, $66 million deal
Zero2Cool (11-Mar) : Damn
Martha Careful (11-Mar) : Saints are re-signing DE Chase Young to a three-year, $51 million deal worth up to $57 million.
Martha Careful (11-Mar) : 49ers releasing FB Juszcyk any interest?
Zero2Cool (11-Mar) : digits of four
Zero2Cool (11-Mar) : four digits
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : Eh, don't think so. better to split
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : on new site, would Fan Shout and GameDay Chat show same messages?
Mucky Tundra (10-Mar) : The Hall of Fame stuff probably came from a scout as Zero said; at this point though it's hard to see them moving ZT from RT
Mucky Tundra (10-Mar) : Regarding ZT at C, Gute had said he felt C was ZTs best position after he was drafted.
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : LB Oren Burks to sign a 2-year, $5M deal with the Bengals.
Zero2Cool (10-Mar) : Based on how it was worded at the time, probably scout.
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