Still DEFENDING Ted Thompson?????· Page 6

nerdmann
Premier Member

10 years ago

I think there is truth in this. To continue to blame everything on the players is going to lose their respect. When you lose their respect, you will get less production from them - just like average Joe having a jerk boss who blames his employees for everything.

I liked Mike in the past, but I am starting to think differently of him after several games with playcalling that is nothing short of predictable. His meetings with the press post game are just as predictable after a loss - "recurring issues, good game plan, need to tackle, need to finish the game....yadda yadda..."

It is apparent that this team needs some fresh blood on their staff.

Originally Posted by: hardrocker950

Not only that, but to require the players to "say the right things," which of course means, accept the blame for themselves.

But I think Capers may have lost the players moreso than Mike.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

porky88
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#52

What is it 2006 again?

Ted Thompson is not without his faults, but calling for his dismissal is an exaggeration. The Packers have no quarterback right now. You can’t win in the NFL without a quarterback. Thompson deserves scrutiny for playing with fire behind Rodgers, but Matt Flynn and Scott Tolzein aren‘t even average. The latter has awful mechanics, which is why so many of his passes are knockdown at the line of scrimmage. Flynn can’t throw outside the numbers. He’s lost his arm strength. Maybe one or two teams could stay competitive with those two. Perhaps New England could because of Bill Belichick. Regardless, this is a major error on Thompson’s part, but it’s not something that should lead to his dismissal.

I think the Packers could learn from Baltimore. In 2007, the Ravens finished 5-11. It was the third losing season under GM Ozzie Newsome. The Ravens made changes. They fired Brian Billick and hired John Harbaugh. They tweaked the roster and made the AFC Championship the following year. Four years later, they won the Super Bowl. The Ravens new Newsome put in place a strong foundation. The Packers also have a foundation. They need to make changes around it, but they don’t need to overhaul it. Such an action could significantly backfire.

http://www.row12.com/

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#53

So now the mantra of the Thompson defenders is that he is merely "stubborn" rather than an overall bad GM.

I will give Thompson credit in his early years for fixing the bad salary cap situation (which, bad as it was, was nothing near as bad as San Francisco or Dallas got themselves into a decade or so ago). I will not condemn Thompson too much for the QB situation - Tolzien and Flynn (although he did give us the Seneca Wallace debacle, and despite the all out irrational HATE some display for Vince Young, I STILL say he could have gotten the Packers through the Rodgers injury better than any of the others).

What I blame Thompson for is: 1. the O Line and first and foremost - how can anybody be happy with the idea of next season having no more change than getting Bulaga back? And if Newhouse is as bad as he seems - and I believe he is, and Lane Taylor no better, as somebody said, WHY was there no upgrade? Yet no condemnation in the forum of Thompson for that hahahaha? Other teams simply don't get themselves into such fucked up situations, and MANY have found significant help on the scrap heap - not us. 2. the D-Line - people just now with the Rodgers injury are realizing that Raji and Pickett are nothing but fat lumps who need to GO? The fact that Johnny Jolly can come back from 3 years in the slammer and the streets of Houston, and outshine everybody there ought to tell us something. Daniels seems good, and the jury is still out on Datone, but all that does is make the D-Line slightly less bad than the O-Line. A LOT of teams around the league have picked up quality D-Linemen even since the season started - not us. 3. LB other than Matthews: Nick Perry has been OK, but it really seems we could have gotten somebody better in the first round. Why take a college DE and try to convert him instead of a slightly smaller more athletic guy? And ILB? All these years, we seemingly could have gotten somebody better maybe a couple of 2nd - 4th rounders than what we have - a LOT of teams have a LOT better personnel with no easier situation than what we have. 4. Safety: I guess I've been stubborn there. I thought McMillian would be the answer; I always kinda liked Jennings; And I still think Burnett will heal completely and snap back to form. Richardson looked like crap - the little I saw of him. The point is, if what we have is so bad - and I'm coming around to the view that it is, Ted Thompson should have pulled the plug on McMillian, Richardson, or whoever, and picked up somebody of quality - again, as other teams have certainly done.

Maybe coaching enters into it, but I would blame the position coaches MUCH more than the coordinator. Where have the Packers been screwing up (where have they not hahahaha)? I would say fundamentals - O-Line blocking, pass in particular, tackling all over the D, etc. Posters are having orgasms over Greene, well, I have to ask, are his LBs doing all that great? I don't see it. Ditto that for the DBs - coverage has been marginal but tackling has been downright bad. I blame personnel - the players just aren't up to standard in a lot of cases, but I will allow for the possibility that some of the problem could be coaching too.

As for Capers, I have yet to see any of his many detractors address this idea: this team is so weak personnel-wise that we NEED scheming/blitz packages/customized defenses/outguessing the other teams to survive. THAT is Capers' thing. Sure, tricks and schemes and well thought out plans don't always work - stopping Kaepernick for example, but playing straight up with substandard personnel wouldn't work either. And given the fact that we NEED that FINESSE kind of defense, who better to design it than Capers? Certainly not some rah rah WWE loud mouth with no experience like Greene.

I'm less pleased with McCarthy now too - to some extent, he has been exposed also by the Rodgers injury. He has input, I'm sure, in the bad personnel crap that I blame Thompson for, but mainly I blame him for playcalling. There too, with Rodgers, you could get away with just about anything. The thing I blame McCarthy for the most is what probably many in here praise him for - listening to critics - NOT being stubborn enough IMO, and going to a run-first offense. As the saying goes, "dance with who brung ya", well, the Packers were GREAT on offense with a pass first attack. Using that, even with Lacy, would be best - pass to set up the run. That is especially true with our pathetic O-Line. When Seneca Wallace was the QB, yeah, we had no choice but to run most of the time, but anybody else, Tolzien, Flynn, etc., we could still have run most of the Aaron Rodgers gameplan and had at least limited success. And to just give up on the no huddle/hurry up, rather than train Tolzien/Flynn to use it? That's bad coaching. After all, they have radios in the helmets and practically a whole playbook on their sleeve.

I still think we win out and take the division with 9-6-1, and hopefully advance in the playoffs. If so - or if not, that really presents the question of what to change next off-season and camp. My guess is very little - unfortunately.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

Mucky Tundra
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#54

Snip

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

For point of clarification, Kevin Greene is the Outside LB coach and the inside guys aren't his responsibility.

“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”

"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers

wpr
Preferred Member

10 years ago

#55

For point of clarification, Kevin Greene is the Outside LB coach and the inside guys aren't his responsibility.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra

how can you ruin a perfectly good rant with actual facts? 😆

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#56

For point of clarification, Kevin Greene is the Outside LB coach and the inside guys aren't his responsibility.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra

To which I say, BFD. Do you see anything good about the tackling, gap/position integrity, etc. of the OLBs either? Matthews has a club on his hand. What's the excuse of the rest of them?

If some other team grabs Greene, I hear Hulk Hogan might be available. You Greene-o-maniacs should love him.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

10 years ago

#57

To which I say, BFD. Do you see anything good about the tackling, gap/position integrity, etc. of the OLBs either? Matthews has a club on his hand. What's the excuse of the rest of them?

If some other team grabs Greene, I hear Hulk Hogan might be available. You Greene-o-maniacs should love him.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

For point of clarification, Clay Matthews III does not have a club, it's more of a brace. He had a club for only one game.

13 sacks have come from the OLB position.

btw, I think it's quite hilarious that we bitch and moan about the bottom half of the 53 while other teams are just desperately seeking a starter worthy quarterback.

Carry on.

Mucky Tundra
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#58

To which I say, BFD. Do you see anything good about the tackling, gap/position integrity, etc. of the OLBs either? Matthews has a club on his hand. What's the excuse of the rest of them?

If some other team grabs Greene, I hear Hulk Hogan might be available. You Greene-o-maniacs should love him.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

Well, probably because outside of Matthews (jury is still out on Perry though his play at ROLB seems encouraging) he's had the least amount of talent. given to him vs the rest of the positions and gotten the best results with guys like Zombo and Moses. In fact, this is the first season that one of the first year guys under him hasn't jumped out in terms of play.

And for the record, I've never said I wanted Greene as the DC, just given more responsibility.

I would take Hulk Hogan at this point. I'm pretty sure he could come up with a defensive scheme to cover the middle of the field better in game than Capers has in all his time here.

“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”

"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers

nerdmann
Premier Member

10 years ago

#59

So now the mantra of the Thompson defenders is that he is merely "stubborn" rather than an overall bad GM.

I will give Thompson credit in his early years for fixing the bad salary cap situation (which, bad as it was, was nothing near as bad as San Francisco or Dallas got themselves into a decade or so ago). I will not condemn Thompson too much for the QB situation - Tolzien and Flynn (although he did give us the Seneca Wallace debacle, and despite the all out irrational HATE some display for Vince Young, I STILL say he could have gotten the Packers through the Rodgers injury better than any of the others).

What I blame Thompson for is: 1. the O Line and first and foremost - how can anybody be happy with the idea of next season having no more change than getting Bulaga back? And if Newhouse is as bad as he seems - and I believe he is, and Lane Taylor no better, as somebody said, WHY was there no upgrade? Yet no condemnation in the forum of Thompson for that hahahaha? Other teams simply don't get themselves into such fucked up situations, and MANY have found significant help on the scrap heap - not us. 2. the D-Line - people just now with the Rodgers injury are realizing that Raji and Pickett are nothing but fat lumps who need to GO? The fact that Johnny Jolly can come back from 3 years in the slammer and the streets of Houston, and outshine everybody there ought to tell us something. Daniels seems good, and the jury is still out on Datone, but all that does is make the D-Line slightly less bad than the O-Line. A LOT of teams around the league have picked up quality D-Linemen even since the season started - not us. 3. LB other than Matthews: Nick Perry has been OK, but it really seems we could have gotten somebody better in the first round. Why take a college DE and try to convert him instead of a slightly smaller more athletic guy? And ILB? All these years, we seemingly could have gotten somebody better maybe a couple of 2nd - 4th rounders than what we have - a LOT of teams have a LOT better personnel with no easier situation than what we have. 4. Safety: I guess I've been stubborn there. I thought McMillian would be the answer; I always kinda liked Jennings; And I still think Burnett will heal completely and snap back to form. Richardson looked like crap - the little I saw of him. The point is, if what we have is so bad - and I'm coming around to the view that it is, Ted Thompson should have pulled the plug on McMillian, Richardson, or whoever, and picked up somebody of quality - again, as other teams have certainly done.

Maybe coaching enters into it, but I would blame the position coaches MUCH more than the coordinator. Where have the Packers been screwing up (where have they not hahahaha)? I would say fundamentals - O-Line blocking, pass in particular, tackling all over the D, etc. Posters are having orgasms over Greene, well, I have to ask, are his LBs doing all that great? I don't see it. Ditto that for the DBs - coverage has been marginal but tackling has been downright bad. I blame personnel - the players just aren't up to standard in a lot of cases, but I will allow for the possibility that some of the problem could be coaching too.

As for Capers, I have yet to see any of his many detractors address this idea: this team is so weak personnel-wise that we NEED scheming/blitz packages/customized defenses/outguessing the other teams to survive. THAT is Capers' thing. Sure, tricks and schemes and well thought out plans don't always work - stopping Kaepernick for example, but playing straight up with substandard personnel wouldn't work either. And given the fact that we NEED that FINESSE kind of defense, who better to design it than Capers? Certainly not some rah rah WWE loud mouth with no experience like Greene.

I'm less pleased with McCarthy now too - to some extent, he has been exposed also by the Rodgers injury. He has input, I'm sure, in the bad personnel crap that I blame Thompson for, but mainly I blame him for playcalling. There too, with Rodgers, you could get away with just about anything. The thing I blame McCarthy for the most is what probably many in here praise him for - listening to critics - NOT being stubborn enough IMO, and going to a run-first offense. As the saying goes, "dance with who brung ya", well, the Packers were GREAT on offense with a pass first attack. Using that, even with Lacy, would be best - pass to set up the run. That is especially true with our pathetic O-Line. When Seneca Wallace was the QB, yeah, we had no choice but to run most of the time, but anybody else, Tolzien, Flynn, etc., we could still have run most of the Aaron Rodgers gameplan and had at least limited success. And to just give up on the no huddle/hurry up, rather than train Tolzien/Flynn to use it? That's bad coaching. After all, they have radios in the helmets and practically a whole playbook on their sleeve.

I still think we win out and take the division with 9-6-1, and hopefully advance in the playoffs. If so - or if not, that really presents the question of what to change next off-season and camp. My guess is very little - unfortunately.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

Stop pissing your pants like a little bitch.

Yeah, we're on a 5 game slide and the season looks like it's circling the shitter. Shit happens, man up and deal with it.

This is the same shit that's been going on for years, and you all have been defending this same status quo, because WE WERE WINNING. THAT MAKES IT OK.

Well, this is what you get when you accept shit suckage. Now stfu and enjoy it like a man.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

play2win
Senior Member

10 years ago

#60

What is it 2006 again?

Ted Thompson is not without his faults, but calling for his dismissal is an exaggeration. The Packers have no quarterback right now. You can’t win in the NFL without a quarterback. Thompson deserves scrutiny for playing with fire behind Rodgers, but Matt Flynn and Scott Tolzein aren‘t even average. The latter has awful mechanics, which is why so many of his passes are knockdown at the line of scrimmage. Flynn can’t throw outside the numbers. He’s lost his arm strength. Maybe one or two teams could stay competitive with those two. Perhaps New England could because of Bill Belichick. Regardless, this is a major error on Thompson’s part, but it’s not something that should lead to his dismissal.

I think the Packers could learn from Baltimore. In 2007, the Ravens finished 5-11. It was the third losing season under GM Ozzie Newsome. The Ravens made changes. They fired Brian Billick and hired John Harbaugh. They tweaked the roster and made the AFC Championship the following year. Four years later, they won the Super Bowl. The Ravens new Newsome put in place a strong foundation. The Packers also have a foundation. They need to make changes around it, but they don’t need to overhaul it. Such an action could significantly backfire.

Originally Posted by: porky88

Great post porky88. One of the best on the subject.

I look at the QB issues much the same way I look at all the other position groups on the team, and especially so with RB. Seems there is a mentality from our HC that "next man up" needs to be able to make all the throws, etc, yada, yada, yada. Did McCarthy adjust his game plan in Wallace's first start to take some of the heat off of him? Hell no, and he went down in a heap, exiting the game in the first series, replaced by Tolzien, a guy who was called up from the PS just 2 weeks before. Did he adjust his game plan then? Hell no. 42 passing attempts between the two scrubs. He is clearly misusing these players of limited ability and exposure to his system.

How about RB? Had McCarthy adjusted the way our RBs were used after Rodgers went down? I haven't seen it. No real platooning to keep backs fresh. No extra OL to run heavy power formations. Little to no use of the classic FB as a lead blocker. Our OL clearly were not coached up to perform well in a run heavy attack. Hell, we didn't have a run heavy attack. We didn't even use our 3rd RB. Rarely used our FB. Never used an extra lineman.

There is zero accountability from this staff. They are an arrogant lot. We, as fans, have been screaming for an upgrade to our OL coaching, with no change, same with our DC. No change. No accountability. STs have been abysmal. Strenght and Conditioning? wow.

Let's put it this way, Ted nabbed Eddie Lacy (4.0 yds/carry) in the draft - probably the best RB in the draft. He also has provided McCarthy with James Starks (6.8 yds/carry). Lacy has 208 carries to Starks' 58. This is an explosive backfield that has gone underutilized. By rights, with Rodgers having gone down these last 5 weeks, we should be leading the NFL in carries between these two rushers. Add to that, we also HAD a thrasher, change of pace RB who had already proven himself with a 100 yd game in Jonathan Franklin. Didn't get a single carry.

How many other top talents on this team have gone underutilized, or have been misused?

Lacy and Starks should have had close to 40 carries collectively in each game since Rodgers went down. Instead they get 28 v. CHI, 28 v. PHI, 16 v. NYG, 28 v. MIN, and 12 v. DET.

Our Head Coach and his staff stink. You know you have one of the best sets of RBs in the NFL. You know you have some explosive offenses that you are facing, and you want to keep them on the sidelines and chew up some clock. You know you have 3rd and 4th string QBs running your offense. Get your OL ready to pound the rock, and POUND THE ROCK! Mike McCarthy did not do that. He didn't get anywhere close. Use some heavy formations. Use your FB. Use your RBs in a rotation to keep them fresh. Mike McCarthy didn't do any of that.

I don't want to hear about 8 men in the box. They should have game planned around that with an extra blocker and just forced their will on our opponents. But, we don't do that. Is that the GM's fault?

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