You're a dumbass! BTW, I'll be in Maple Grove Saturday night and part of Sunday. You can take me out for breakfast. PM me your info.

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I won't be in Maple Grove, but you're still a dumbass.

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If you're not free, what's the point of being safe?

I'd rather be dead than a serf.




(Besides, another man can only take *this* life away from me. He can't take away the one that matters. [grin1] )

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You already are a serf.

I agree with the other life comment though. I think most people forget about that one.

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If you're DEAD, what's the point of being safe? I'm surprised at you, Wade, saying you'd rather be dead than anything. Either it's hyperbole or else it's just sad.

Anyway, as I think somebody in here said, BOTH security and freedom are matters of degree - you can't be 100% of either. That much is indisputable. It's all a matter of degree, and where to draw the line - how much it's possible to have of each/which is more important - that's where the argument comes in.

Most of the freedom people talk about giving up, however, is theoretical/not exercised anyway or so minor as to be irrelevant in comparison to the consequences of sacrificing security and safety.

This is just common sense normalcy, people - NOT even a close call.

And TRUE about your last line. However, if the terrorist enemy had its way, future generations might not even have THAT - EITHER by letting them win and blot out our Judeo-Christian culture - and with it knowledge of that "next life" and the means to achieve it OR just by killing enough of us that most of the future generation wouldn't even exist. Yeah, that's pretty extreme and alarmist, but then so is getting nuked or hit by a massive enough chem- or bio- attack.

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Ok, this made me lol.

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Way to give me notice. I was in Hell (aka Wisconsin) this weekend at my wife's family reunion in Beaver Dam. You have the absolutely WORST timing.

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Listen.

We are all animals. Look at the Warsaw ghetto, the things people did to survive in places like Auschwitz and the other camps.

Please. You don't know how you would react if your freedoms were taken from you.

History indicates most would try and just survive under the circumstances presented to them.

Go ahead and say you would die before giving up your freedoms- it's not a bad thing to say- but I'm not feelin' it, cursed with having run with the animals.

Most cave like an old tent in a tornado if it actually came down to their own existence, given those choices.

We go to war over this. Sometimes the REMFS don't know it, but the folks on the ground in the places you sent us to...

Do.

They made the choice to live vs. freedom long before I got there, otherwise, by the time I got there, they would already be dead.

This line reminds me of people who believe everything of note is bled with conspiracy.

Every now and then I watch documentaries of other countries and have the girls watch it with me. They have the same questions as they do when watching movies that take place in other countries. "That's not real, right daddy?" They are surprised how little people can do and they were visibly disturbed watching a documentary on North Korea.

Afterwards I usually chime in with something similar to "Glad to be an American, huh?". Every time, it's a sharp nod indicating yes. And then I tell them that just because we have it better than most, doesn't mean we have to be okay with getting screwed over.

I prefer more freedom than safety. If we educate properly, I think we will be more safe than the government sanctions/rules/whatever could make us.

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Okay, okay, okay....

I believe that if given a choice between being a serf and being dead, I'd choose death. But unless/until confronted with the actual choice, I can't know for sure what I'd choose.

Better.

p.s. Was the following hyperbole or just sad?

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

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