Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

Yep he sure did. Even he know it was shaky ground at best and Unconstitutional at worst. He was willing to be the bad guy and held responsible for his actions if the post war courts would say so. That is a far cry from someone who was wanting to be a despot.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I've never thought of him as a despot. But the choices he was willing to make with respect to various freedoms in the name of preserving the Union, do leave me with some ambivalence toward him that I didn't have back when I was a kid and thought he was the greatest President since Washington.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

And in their own time, the Founders were right. But that was then and this is now. They didn't suitcase nukes, airliners full of jet fuel, a barrel of radioactive waste that could make a large part of a major city unlivable for centuries, etc. The transportation technology back then didn't exist to bring the evils of "over there" to over here.

Freedom to be ALIVE is a powerful freedom. Before you can be free to not have that state oppress you; before you can use the freedom to speak out against that oppression - or anything else; Before you can have the freedom to live life the way you see fit to maximize your enjoyment, YOU HAVE TO NOT BE DEAD!

"Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither"? Nope! I'm here to tell you, Security i.e. Freedom to be Alive IS freedom - the ultimate freedom.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Hah. That's why I'm not a conservative.

I'm unconvinced that the state makes living less of a risk. Suitcase nukes and post-modern whack-jobs notwithstanding. I'm unconvinced, for example, that the TSA actually serves a valuable function other than giving a *false* sense of security against said whack-jobs.

Or can.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

I've never thought of him as a despot. But the choices he was willing to make with respect to various freedoms in the name of preserving the Union, do leave me with some ambivalence toward him that I didn't have back when I was a kid and thought he was the greatest President since Washington.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I know what you are saying and why. I have mulled it over and over for years. Seeing things like this have helped me judge him less harshly.

In particular, Lincoln stated the objection this way: that the president, "who is sworn to 'take care that the laws be faithfully executed,' should not himself violate them."

But when he addressed Congress on July 4, 1861, Lincoln defended his decision on two grounds: that it was essential to preserving the Union and that it was constitutional.

"Are all the laws, but one, to go unexecuted, and the government itself go to pieces, lest that one be violated?" Lincoln asked. "Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken, if the government should be overthrown, when it was believed that disregarding the single law, would tend to preserve it?"

And Lincoln cited the provision in the Constitution - Article I, Section 9, clause 2 - that authorized his action: "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.''



I have no doubt Mr Lincoln wrested with this as much as he did with any single issue. I doubt he took it lightly.
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dfosterf
10 years ago
When shit hits the fan there is freedom of speech.

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