Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
I doubt the Jets will lose out, but if they do, will you at least have the intellectual integrity to admit it wasn't some sort of mystical Favre aura that lead the Packers to the championship last year -- but was attributable more to a schedule that included the two weakest divisions in football that year?

Favre hasn't tossed a TD in two games. What happened to the mystique that supposedly elevates everyone around him?

That's right -- it's all in your head.
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greenwhiteandnogold
16 years ago

Precisely. We're talking about your speculations, which unfortunately you are completely unable to back up with facts. And considering that for which you long can never possibly happen, what's the point of wasting energy on it?

The FACTS when examined in the broad picture show that Rodgers has done an admirable job this year. Anything else is whining and immature at that.

But at least you admit your Favre religion is just that . . . a creepy sort of man worship utterly inured to facts. You have more honesty than most Favre fanatics, so I respect you for that.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Ever since when did I "admit" to my "Favre religion". Don't put words in my mouth.
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longtimefan
16 years ago

For comparison purposes, as of Week 14 last year, Green Bay had scored 361 points and surrendered 229 points.

By startling contrast, as of Week 14 this season, Green Bay has scored 355 points and surrendered an incredible 320 points.

Last year at this time, Green Bay's point differential was +132; this year it's +25. The fact our record is an abysmal 5-8 with a positive point differential shows how close the games have been.

But the fact remains: this team has scored only 1.38% fewer points than last year (with a first-year starter, at that) but has surrendered 39.7% more points than last year. That's an enormous burden for our offense to have to overcome.

Brett Favre made all the difference? The facts say otherwise.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



POWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


that is outstanding!!

Now as greenandNOtgold and obi are trying to say is that their opinion is that Brett would make up all that difference
Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
You admitted that your blind Favre worship is immune to any and all facts -- therefore it is a tenet of faith -- therefore it can be called a religion.

Of course to some extent I'm speaking figuratively, but the point remains.
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greenwhiteandnogold
16 years ago

You admitted that your blind Favre worship is immune to any and all facts -- therefore it is a tenet of faith -- therefore it can be called a religion.

Of course to some extent I'm speaking figuratively, but the point remains.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Here you go again, saying that "I admitted blah blah blah"
wtf! seriously, that's not cool dude

. I could say that "You admitted to spending hours gazing over pictures of Ted Thompson with a tube of lotion handy" but that wouldn't be true. That would make me an outright liar. Perhaps, I'm overreacting and it's just the case that you don't understand the meaning of the word ADMITTED. Please look it up in the dictionary.
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obi1
16 years ago

Stats don't bear out the What Favre brought to the field.

"greenwhiteandnogold" wrote:



Your argument sounds compelling at first blush, except it fails utterly to explain either the 2005 seasons (4-12) or the 2006 season (8-8). Where was Favre's mystical influence those years?

Oh, wait, what's that I hear? It was all the defense's fault those years?

Figures.

In the face of empirical facts, your argument falls flat on its face.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Are we talking about 05 or are we talking about 08? Last I checked, we were talking about 07 and 08.

The team was very different from 2005 to 2008 than it was form 2007 to 2008. Completely different teams. Granted, there were a couple of new players from 2007 to 2008, so you can't say that Favre was the only difference. Albeit, he was the only major move.

In 2005 we had a completely different team, different receivers, different O-line, different defense. Completely Apples to Oranges. Let me see... we had Driver in 05, we had Favre in 05, we had KGB in 2005... hmm... didn't have Jones, didn't have Jennings, didn't have Grant, didn't have over half of the starters we had then.

In the face of empirical facts, your argument falls flat on its face.

"obi1" wrote:



So you are saying that there is no real HUMAN element to football?
That stats will bear out all aspects of the game?

So There was nothing special about Reggie White? The Packers would have won without him right?

How about Bart Starr? Ray Nitschke? Paul HOrnung? Max McGee? They were true champions and football players before Lombardi came along... Right?

The truly great teams have that one catalyst who can take the cream to the top and bring up the level of EVERY player.

What statistic points out what Reggie White meant to the Packers OFFENSE by his presence? or the Psyche of the whole team?

How well do you think the Packer defense of the 60's played because in the back of their minds they knew they had great players like Starr and Taylor on the OTHER side of the ball? HOw do we measure that?

IF you are only searching for EMPIRICAL evidence, you close your mind to the possibilities that their might be something other than facts and numbers to football...or LIFE for that matter.

TRY searching your heart for a change. Last year, a player who is a living legend in the NFL, who was contemplating retirement because he was beginning to feel a bit washed up, played his heart out and inspired his whole team to do so.

They WON close games without a running attack and was buoyed by his heart, grit, and intensity. The whole team rallied and won the tough, close games.

That is NOT the case this year, the leader that carried the team retired, unretired, unceremoniously was traded. His replacement has the talent to lead the same team but not the experience or the panache... YET!

As a result, the similar, tight, closely contested games that resulted in wins last year are losses THIS year and the same basic defensive team is performing without the same heart, intensity or the desire.

You can keep looking for empirical evidence but it doesn't have to conk me upside the head for me to see that this team lacks the heart that it had last year. The prestige, the swagger, the persona of playing with a living legend who may have been playing his last season as a Packer is NOT there.

Ask yourself this question. IS there empirical evidence that GOD exists in heaven? Many people may not believe that there is that evidence but they believe in their heart that he does exist.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
For the record, I'm glad we had the privilege of watching Brett Favre lead the Green Bay Packers for so many years. I can say with little risk of exaggeration that it was Brett Favre who turned me into a football fan. I'll never forget watching Green Bay lose to San Francisco in the 1995 NFC Championship game or listening to Green Bay defeat Carolina in the 1996 NFC Championship game. I'll never forget watching Brett Favre running down the field after his touchdown pass in the Superbowl -- or watching him barely sneak it over the pylon for a rare rushing touchdown.

But as fun as he could be to watch, I just never bought (much) into the hype, and as the years wore on, the scales fell completely from my eyes. I could see his faults just as much as I admired his strengths. Once he announced his retirement, I was eager to move on and see what the future held in store for Packers' fans.

Let's face it. Favre was amazing -- one of the best ever -- from about 1994-1996. In the past 10 years, he's been less than awe-inspiring (the media's bootlicking notwithstanding), and he pissed me off about as often as he made me scream for joy. Every time he went back for a pass those last few years, I found myself catching my breath, hoping the worst wasn't about to happen.

I don't understand why people can't shake themselves out of the dream of the long-faded glory years. Favre gave us one Superbowl victory in 16 years. Bart Starr gave us 5 NFL Championships, plus 2 Superbowl victories, in 7 years. No other quarterback in history has lead his team to 5 NFL championships.

Brett Favre the greatest player in Packers history? Hardly. That honor belongs to Bart Starr, and there's almost no comparison.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago

Ask yourself this question. IS there empirical evidence that GOD exists in heaven? Many people may not believe that there is that evidence but they believe in their heart that he does exist.

"obi1" wrote:



Statements like these really bother me. Seriously, people, Brett Favre is just a man. I understand admiring him, but this blind, unreasoning adulation is beyond my comprehension.

None of the quarterbacks who have more championships have the same kind of cult that Favre has. I don't understand it, nor do I care to.
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Pack93z
16 years ago
Rabble Rabble Favre... Rabble Rabble Rodgers..

Offense hasn't been the problem boys.. but continue blasting away while the fact of the matter is the defense has been exposed more times this year than the lady bumps on Pamela Anderson.

Neither pretty boy QB has a solution for that.. period.

Can't wait til they close the books on the season and the entire offseason of this same freaky debate.

We need to rebuild the lines, look hard at the base schemes, shore up the coaching staff and focus on making us a better team.

Damn it.. this on top of a disappointing season in which we showed we aren't a team that is able to play sound smart football.. which yes makes us a "bad" team.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
obi1
16 years ago

Ask yourself this question. IS there empirical evidence that GOD exists in heaven? Many people may not believe that there is that evidence but they believe in their heart that he does exist.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Statements like these really bother me. Seriously, people, Brett Favre is just a man. I understand admiring him, but this blind, unreasoning adulation is beyond my comprehension.

None of the quarterbacks who have more championships have the same kind of cult that Favre has. I don't understand it, nor do I care to.

"obi1" wrote:



I am NOT a FAVRE fist fan.

I am a Packers fan... AND an ardent Rodgers defender, Ted Thompson defender MM supporter. I am speaking my mind about what MY opinion of why we are losing the games we should have won this year vs last year and my theory of how Favre affect made the players play harder and better on BOTH sides of the ball.

I don't need evidence for that. Their play on the field says everything.

YOU can quantify it with STATS to trivialize his affect. I like to look deeper into the heart of the athelete...TEAM.
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