Are we really this bad?· Page 5

obi1
Registered

16 years ago

For the record, I'm glad we had the privilege of watching Brett Favre lead the Green Bay Packers for so many years. I can say with little risk of exaggeration that it was Brett Favre who turned me into a football fan. I'll never forget watching Green Bay lose to San Francisco in the 1995 NFC Championship game or listening to Green Bay defeat Carolina in the 1996 NFC Championship game. I'll never forget watching Brett Favre running down the field after his touchdown pass in the Superbowl -- or watching him barely sneak it over the pylon for a rare rushing touchdown.

But as fun as he could be to watch, I just never bought (much) into the hype, and as the years wore on, the scales fell completely from my eyes. I could see his faults just as much as I admired his strengths. Once he announced his retirement, I was eager to move on and see what the future held in store for Packers' fans.

Let's face it. Favre was amazing -- one of the best ever -- from about 1994-1996. In the past 10 years, he's been less than awe-inspiring (the media's bootlicking notwithstanding), and he pissed me off about as often as he made me scream for joy. Every time he went back for a pass those last few years, I found myself catching my breath, hoping the worst wasn't about to happen.

I don't understand why people can't shake themselves out of the dream of the long-faded glory years. Favre gave us one Superbowl victory in 16 years. Bart Starr gave us 5 NFL Championships, plus 2 Superbowl victories, in 7 years. No other quarterback in history has lead his team to 5 NFL championships.

Brett Favre the greatest player in Packers history? Hardly. That honor belongs to Bart Starr, and there's almost no comparison.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

Did you read any of my posts? I have NEVER said that Favre is the best ever and I disagree with you about Starr. I think that honor goes to Don Hutson. but I can now see that you have me classified as a Favre WORSHIPPER.

What did you think of some other parts of my post like "Is htere a HUMAN element to football?"

Do you think there is an athlete out there who could by his legend could elevate the whole team's performance?
Such as Starr? Nitschke? White? Favre?

blank

Cheesey
Preferred Member

16 years ago

#42

Rabble Rabble Favre... Rabble Rabble Rodgers..

Offense hasn't been the problem boys.. but continue blasting away while the fact of the matter is the defense has been exposed more times this year than the lady bumps on Pamela Anderson.

Neither pretty boy QB has a solution for that.. period.

Can't wait til they close the books on the season and the entire offseason of this same freaky debate.

We need to rebuild the lines, look hard at the base schemes, shore up the coaching staff and focus on making us a better team.

Damn it.. this on top of a disappointing season in which we showed we aren't a team that is able to play sound smart football.. which yes makes us a "bad" team.

"pack93z" wrote:

Thats all good.......but truth is, those that have their "Favre glasses" on will never let this die. Never.
They won't let that happen.
Several times in this thread FACTUAL info has been shown for one side of the argument. This has shown the point differential between what bot the Jets and Packers have done. The Packers have scored one more poin then the Jets, the Packers D has given up lots more points. Thats not "opinion", thats FACTUAL INFO.
Rodgers has done as good, if not better then Favre this year. But the Jets D has done alot better then the Packer D. Again........fact.

And as was stated.......ONE Super Bowl in 16 years here. Hardly a "great" amount of championships, would'nt you all agree?
Look what Tom Brady has done in his short career.

I loved Favre when he was here. He was fun to watch. But he sure wasn't the ONLY reason we won games.

OB1.......you made a point that REALLY backs up more of what i say then what YOU think.
All the great Packer players you named in your posting......Reggie White for one. He was as big a part of putting us over the top to win a championship as Favre was. It was NOT all Favre.
All the other Packer greats you named all played together on the SAME TEAM during the 1960's when they won 5 titles. It took ALL those guys to win. Of course times are different now.....you can't hold onto that many great players with the salary cap and free agency.

Favre was a PART of our ONE SB title.
How many did we win since SB 31? Favre was here that whole time, wasn't he? He had it in his lap last year and couldn't get it done......even at home. So what would make it so different if he was here this year? Would that magically make our defense great?
Like i have pointed out.......we have scored more points then the Jets offense.
Maybe if we had only scored half as many points your argument would be valid......but facts prove otherwise.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

16 years ago

#43

For the record, I'm glad we had the privilege of watching Brett Favre lead the Green Bay Packers for so many years. I can say with little risk of exaggeration that it was Brett Favre who turned me into a football fan. I'll never forget watching Green Bay lose to San Francisco in the 1995 NFC Championship game or listening to Green Bay defeat Carolina in the 1996 NFC Championship game. I'll never forget watching Brett Favre running down the field after his touchdown pass in the Superbowl -- or watching him barely sneak it over the pylon for a rare rushing touchdown.

But as fun as he could be to watch, I just never bought (much) into the hype, and as the years wore on, the scales fell completely from my eyes. I could see his faults just as much as I admired his strengths. Once he announced his retirement, I was eager to move on and see what the future held in store for Packers' fans.

Let's face it. Favre was amazing -- one of the best ever -- from about 1994-1996. In the past 10 years, he's been less than awe-inspiring (the media's bootlicking notwithstanding), and he pissed me off about as often as he made me scream for joy. Every time he went back for a pass those last few years, I found myself catching my breath, hoping the worst wasn't about to happen.

I don't understand why people can't shake themselves out of the dream of the long-faded glory years. Favre gave us one Superbowl victory in 16 years. Bart Starr gave us 5 NFL Championships, plus 2 Superbowl victories, in 7 years. No other quarterback in history has lead his team to 5 NFL championships.

Brett Favre the greatest player in Packers history? Hardly. That honor belongs to Bart Starr, and there's almost no comparison.

"obi1" wrote:

Did you read any of my posts? I have NEVER said that Favre is the best ever and I disagree with you about Starr. I think that honor goes to Don Hutson. but I can now see that you have me classified as a Favre WORSHIPPER.

What did you think of some other parts of my post like "Is htere a HUMAN element to football?"

Do you think there is an athlete out there who could by his legend could elevate the whole team's performance?
Such as Starr? Nitschke? White? Favre?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

They didn't just add Favre.......they did alot more then just that. Plus, they have had a easy schedule because of sucking so bad last year. Those facts matter you know.
Plus.....fact is.........he has won some games with the Jets......he hasn't WON anything yet. If he wins the SB this year, then you can say how all of us are wrong. Otherwise, they are no farther along then the Packers.]
And WE have a QB that will be here for many years.....not just this and MAYBE another year. Then what will the "mighty" Jets do?
We will see......won't we?

obi1
Registered

16 years ago

#44

Rabble Rabble Favre... Rabble Rabble Rodgers..

Offense hasn't been the problem boys.. but continue blasting away while the fact of the matter is the defense has been exposed more times this year than the lady bumps on Pamela Anderson.

Neither pretty boy QB has a solution for that.. period.

Can't wait til they close the books on the season and the entire offseason of this same freaky debate.

We need to rebuild the lines, look hard at the base schemes, shore up the coaching staff and focus on making us a better team.

Damn it.. this on top of a disappointing season in which we showed we aren't a team that is able to play sound smart football.. which yes makes us a "bad" team.

"Cheesey" wrote:

Thats all good.......but truth is, those that have their "Favre glasses" on will never let this die. Never.
They won't let that happen.
Several times in this thread FACTUAL info has been shown for one side of the argument. This has shown the point differential between what bot the Jets and Packers have done. The Packers have scored one more poin then the Jets, the Packers D has given up lots more points. Thats not "opinion", thats FACTUAL INFO.
Rodgers has done as good, if not better then Favre this year. But the Jets D has done alot better then the Packer D. Again........fact.

And as was stated.......ONE Super Bowl in 16 years here. Hardly a "great" amount of championships, would'nt you all agree?
Look what Tom Brady has done in his short career.

I loved Favre when he was here. He was fun to watch. But he sure wasn't the ONLY reason we won games.

OB1.......you made a point that REALLY backs up more of what i say then what YOU think.
All the great Packer players you named in your posting......Reggie White for one. He was as big a part of putting us over the top to win a championship as Favre was. It was NOT all Favre.
All the other Packer greats you named all played together on the SAME TEAM during the 1960's when they won 5 titles. It took ALL those guys to win. Of course times are different now.....you can't hold onto that many great players with the salary cap and free agency.

Favre was a PART of our ONE SB title.
How many did we win since SB 31? Favre was here that whole time, wasn't he? He had it in his lap last year and couldn't get it done......even at home. So what would make it so different if he was here this year? Would that magically make our defense great?
Like i have pointed out.......we have scored more points then the Jets offense.
Maybe if we had only scored half as many points your argument would be valid......but facts prove otherwise.

"pack93z" wrote:

Cheesey,

I DON'T have FAVRE GLASSES ON! I am NOT talking about Favre's exploits, Fvre the Football Icon, or really any of those things.

Just like you ponted out in your post, Reggie White really elevated the Packers play in the superbowl years... Then YOU of all people can understand, FAVRE elevated the Packers in 2007. HIS presence helped his team win the close games which the 2008 team managed to lose.

He had the Packers, the fans and the media all believing that the 2007 season would likely be his last year and that brought the team together to play harder and dig deeper. This year, THAT motivation is gone. Thus the intensity and the heart of the team is not as committed.

I am not blaming anyone, just stating how I feel...

blank

obi1
Registered

16 years ago

#45

For the record, I'm glad we had the privilege of watching Brett Favre lead the Green Bay Packers for so many years. I can say with little risk of exaggeration that it was Brett Favre who turned me into a football fan. I'll never forget watching Green Bay lose to San Francisco in the 1995 NFC Championship game or listening to Green Bay defeat Carolina in the 1996 NFC Championship game. I'll never forget watching Brett Favre running down the field after his touchdown pass in the Superbowl -- or watching him barely sneak it over the pylon for a rare rushing touchdown.

But as fun as he could be to watch, I just never bought (much) into the hype, and as the years wore on, the scales fell completely from my eyes. I could see his faults just as much as I admired his strengths. Once he announced his retirement, I was eager to move on and see what the future held in store for Packers' fans.

Let's face it. Favre was amazing -- one of the best ever -- from about 1994-1996. In the past 10 years, he's been less than awe-inspiring (the media's bootlicking notwithstanding), and he pissed me off about as often as he made me scream for joy. Every time he went back for a pass those last few years, I found myself catching my breath, hoping the worst wasn't about to happen.

I don't understand why people can't shake themselves out of the dream of the long-faded glory years. Favre gave us one Superbowl victory in 16 years. Bart Starr gave us 5 NFL Championships, plus 2 Superbowl victories, in 7 years. No other quarterback in history has lead his team to 5 NFL championships.

Brett Favre the greatest player in Packers history? Hardly. That honor belongs to Bart Starr, and there's almost no comparison.

"Cheesey" wrote:

Did you read any of my posts? I have NEVER said that Favre is the best ever and I disagree with you about Starr. I think that honor goes to Don Hutson. but I can now see that you have me classified as a Favre WORSHIPPER.

What did you think of some other parts of my post like "Is htere a HUMAN element to football?"

Do you think there is an athlete out there who could by his legend could elevate the whole team's performance?
Such as Starr? Nitschke? White? Favre?

"obi1" wrote:

They didn't just add Favre.......they did alot more then just that. Plus, they have had a easy schedule because of sucking so bad last year. Those facts matter you know.
Plus.....fact is.........he has won some games with the Jets......he hasn't WON anything yet. If he wins the SB this year, then you can say how all of us are wrong. Otherwise, they are no farther along then the Packers.]
And WE have a QB that will be here for many years.....not just this and MAYBE another year. Then what will the "mighty" Jets do?
We will see......won't we?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

Again, I am NOT a Jets fan and don't really care how Brett does for the Jets. BUT I will root for the Jets to win because I want the highest draft pick for the Packers.

I think if you read my posts carefully, you will see that I am not comparing Stats at all. Having experienced sports at a High level, I know the role modeling that goes on and the importance of it.

I think Favre had a surprising 2007 and the momentum that built made the whole team take notice and ride the wave of success that helped create. Thus, Packers won a whole lot of games in the beginning that were close that they weren't supposed to win...

With no running game, rookie punter and a ST that struggled the previous year, Packers weren't given much of a chance in 2007.

Thats all. Now I will go to sleep and have night mares about the Vikings cheerleaders or something.

blank

IronMan
Veteran Member

16 years ago

#46

I cannot stand it when people say stuff like "we aren't as bad as our record.", or "the better team didn't win."

It is disrespectful to your opponent to say you are better than them, when they beat you on the field.

You are what your record says you are. Period.

longtimefan
Registered

16 years ago

#47

I cannot stand it when people say stuff like "we aren't as bad as our record.", or "the better team didn't win."

It is disrespectful to your opponent to say you are better than them, when they beat you on the field.

You are what your record says you are. Period.

"IronMan" wrote:

Obi and others opinion is that with Favre the team would be better..There is no way of proving that at all

They could be right or they could be wrong, WE WILL NEVER KNOW...

But they come off as saying it as FACT which in my book is sort of wrong, just cuz there is no way of knowing..

MassPackersFan
Member

16 years ago

#48

I think you missed my point. The differnce isn't in the players but in their hearts and no amount of statistics are going to measure the heart of the players.

"obi1" wrote:

I hope you understand why I can't agree with this unless it comes straight from the mouth of the players themselves. You're claiming to know the inner workings of other peoples' hearts.

MassPackersFan
Member

16 years ago

#49

I cannot stand it when people say stuff like "we aren't as bad as our record.", or "the better team didn't win."

It is disrespectful to your opponent to say you are better than them, when they beat you on the field.

You are what your record says you are. Period.

"IronMan" wrote:

To a certain extent you are right, but I don't see any reason to ignore strength of schedule and how much you win or lose by. People are usually cautious about praising teams with good records and aggressive about criticizing teams with poor records though. It's just the nature of the game.

RaiderPride
Senior Member

16 years ago

#50

This thread is a great read with my morning coffee. I love it.

My coffee tastes a great deal better reading this, then it would reading about corrupt Chicago politics, an F-18 crashing into San Diego homes, or a murder in New York.

Thank you to everyone who posted in it.

EVERYONE!

""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."

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