If you don't mind giving up 300+ passing yards across the middle of the field then sure Bishop should start in the middle.

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LOL... I thought we talked about that.. adjustments to the scheme.. oh wait, your right.. that doesn't happen mid game on defense for the Packers..

You know.. he can play defense and be protected in the coverages.. well he could.

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I think that's really being too simplistic.

For starters, shouldn't the DE and DT coaches be given some of the blame for the bad d-line, if you take issue with the coaching? It's interesting to note that a Press Gazette beat writer said D-line coach Robert Nunn was the smartest coach on the team, someone really bright.

If we give that statement even a little bit of merit, that is to say we accept Robert Nunn is a good coach, then why has the position he's been responsible for so terrible?


And this relates to my issue with blaming Sanders: the talent simply isn't there. Are we to believe that Steve Spagnolo is some sort of prodigy genius that has dealt with losing Osi and Strahan because he has been very creative? Or can Spagnolo's success despite losing the two best pass rushers be attributed to having two great pass rushers in Kiwanuka and Tuck to help fill the void, while adding some nuances to further make up for the loss of Osi and Strahan?

I'm not saying talent is the be all and end all, but it's unfair to sour on a coach that only 8 months ago was in charge of one of the better Defence's of the league, and acknowledged by a good coach like Jim Bates as being a good choice for DC.

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Sorry porky, got one more bit to add:



I take issue with that statement.

1) Sanders has blitzed more this year than in past years.

2) Sanders installed a 2-4 package this off-season, attempting to utilize one of our (supposed) deepest positions, that being LB.

3) Sanders installed a 3-1-7 package that we saw vs. the Texans, something that is pretty creative.

4) Sanders has blizted more from the left side, trying to get 1 of 2 things to happen:

(A) The blizter coming from the left is the side Kampman plays on. Kampman is double teamed quite a bit. So if Kampman is being double teamed, there is a greater chance the blitzer can come through and create pressure / get a sack.

(B) The blizter forces one of the two blockers on Kampman to leave Kampan in an effort to pick up the blitzing player. Thus, Kampman is left one-on-one. That's the thing you want to see, especially with your best pass rusher.


The problem is that there has been no rush from the right side or the middle. Our DTs in passing situations are Cole/Jolly at one spot, and Harrell at another. That's pathetic, considering Harrell's forte was being a 'run stuffer'. Quite honestly, how much can you expect Jolly to do seeing as he is playing 40-45 snaps a game?

Then there is the RE spot. We've tried: Montgomery, Hunter, Pettaway, and Thompson. Not a rusher amongst them. KGB's loss hurt real bad, and Jenkins loss was even worse. If you had to risk your life on the RE getting a rush, which one of the players would you choose from Montgomery/Hunter/Pettaway/Thompson? There really isn't one adapt at rushing in the group.

How on earth can Sanders be the only problem when 1) He's tried different things, things that are anything but "vanilla," and 2) he's got nothing to work with in terms of quality D-linemen?

In an article by Bob McGinn earlier this year, a scout rated the Packers D-line. I'd be real interested in re-reading that article, if I'm not mistaken after Kampman the scout was unimpressed with much of our D-line. He thought Thompson had potential though.

Disclaimer: Please don't think I'm saying Bob Sanders is the right man for the job. All I'm saying is that simply firing Bob Sanders is not going to fix the problem completely.

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Right now I say Sanders gets one more year. This has been frustrating to watch, but last year the defense was pretty darn good. Let's wait a little bit before we ask for his head.

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Last year the defense was pretty darn good because pretty much nobody got hurt.

We lost Cullen Jenkins (who is essentially two players) and Nick Barnett for the season. KGB didn't pan out, Atari Bigby didn't make the same impact, and Al Harris didn't play for a bit.

I think Bob Sanders has to go, because he doesn't inspire the defensive to have any kind of fire. But I still like our system that relies on our press coverage. It's just that we need defensive linemen, and lots of them.

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I never suggested that firing Sanders would fix everything, but the Packers need to start somewhere. That's where I would start.

As I said in my wish list post, I think the Packers need to add a stout defensive tackle and a pass rusher via draft and free agency to fix the problem entirely.

Tampa Bay, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. Those are creative defenses. They utilize all their players in every single way possible. They set things up and put players in position to succeed.

There is more to being creative than throwing out a 4-4 defense or a 3-4 or a 4-3 or a 2-4-5.

The Packers use blitzes that I can spot from watching TV. You have the MLB going right up and through the center. The other two linebackers going outside of the DE's. Sanders also sends a the corner blitz every now and then. Those are his basic blitz packages. Like you say he's trying two things with them. Free up Kampman or get a clean shot at the QB. That's not being creative. That's being repetitive.

The Packers need a more aggressive coach. One that isn't afraid to send a safety up the middle. One that isn't afraid to use a crash right blitz or left where they send the middle and right linebackers towards the DE and DT gap and drop the DE in a zone coverage or flat coverage.

I haven't seen one blitz this year where Sanders sent all his linebackers. How about sending a backer and a safety? A backer and corner?

It might sound to aggressive just reading, but at the right moment these are the types of things you can use.

Regarding Nunn,

Bob Sanders is a former defensive line coach and I would suggest that he probably has a lot of say with how the defensive lineman are coached. Not to say that Robert Nunn doesn't, but I would say Sanders runs things with the front seven. Much like Mike McCarthy runs the QB's. This is Sanders defense line. Make no mistake about it.

Regarding Winston Moss,

Today on the radio Harry Sydney and Chris Havel whom really tore into the team spoke very highly of Winston Moss and suggested that he also be promoted. He credited Moss with being a more aggressive coach and stated the Packers need to be more creative. Like he took the words right out of my mouth. Now he could be wrong about Moss. So could I, but I think it's clear from everything that has been gathered about Moss is that he's an aggressive coach. Far more than Bob Sanders and that's what the Packers need right now.

Even though the defense was good last year, I do recall seeing the pass rush wear down near the end of the season. I think most of us including myself thought it was just injuries to the defensive tackles and guys like Kampman and KGB just getting tired. Well maybe that's when it all started because Eli had time to throw in the Giant game.

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I would feel a ton better about Moss if our Linebackers would have preformed better over the past two seasons.. Last year there was little issue with the Line and the Backers were still the weak link.. this year, the case could be made that the Backers were part of the problem more so than curtailing it.

Maybe I expect more out of this group overall and am being too harsh... but other than Barnett last year.. the backers have been disappointing overall. Hawk was solid last year.. but this year... solid might be a bit much.. steady maybe. :lol:

If Moss is promoted, I hope I am way off base.

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Why, did we keep Bob Slowik around for one more year? Because what I a have been watching for the last three weeks is just as bad. Yeah, Cullen Jenkins got injured and so two is Barnett. What's the excuse next year when a guy or two go down? Let's face it, when we go against average to good offenses, we are overmatched and have been for quite some time. Last year was the exception, but I believe our strength of schedule had a big part in that.

No the correct move is to replace the DC because of the product on the field. This isn't a charity league, it's the Not For Long league, and I think Mr. Sanders' time is up in Green Bay.

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I said I'd weigh in on Porky's Christmas list, but that thread went south.

All fantastic input on this thread, imo.

OK, I've calmed down after the game, so that I am not emotional about who should be fired anymore.

Fire that pos Sanders. While he is packing his bags, get rid of Winston Moss, absolutely right behind his ass. I do not get how he can get so many props. I submit he is part of the problem, absolutely not part of the solution... look at his friggin' job description---"Develop defensive concepts critical to winning." How's THAT goin' Winston? He's administrative these days anyway. GTFO. Don't let the door hit you on the ass, etc.

If, by some miracle, this man does not get a head coaching job, we must cast every lure we have in an attempt to secure him... My new hero would be...

Jim Swartz--- Defensive Coordinator of the Tennessee Titans. It is POSSIBLE (though not terribly likely, I admit) that giving him asst. head coach/coordinator MIGHT lure him away... They run the 4-3 They do mostly bump and run... HAYNESWORTH LOVES HIM...

Singletary might pop free if he keeps popping off at the mouth.

If we decide to bust a 3-4 move....I'd say (God help us all) Wade Phillips

Jim Johnson from Philly.....


NEW BLOOD I SAY !!!!!

Also, I want to fire that loser Bill Miller....IMMEDIATELY.

He is the Plumber/Beverage Systems Technician for the Packers.

NO BEER and CLOGGED CRAPPERS for the fanbase... this will FORCE TT/MM to bust a MOVE(ment?)