Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

The bump out of bounds I'd be okay with ... if the Packers could tackle properly on a consistent basis. They can not, therefore, I think they should tackle every single time. Get comfortable doing it. Get used to doing it. Do it the right away. I'm reminded of a couple quotes...





I am confident without any numbers to support the statement that if the Packers would have committed 50% less missed tackles, they would have went 19 - 0. I hate, absolutely HATE how poor tackling is in the NFL, and more passionately with the Packers.

I was talking to my dad about tackling the other day. He wasn't the biggest guy either in High School and he said he would take out the legs. He said I was foolish for how I tackled. I did it how I was told I had to, or I'd be on the bench. I wasn't big in High School but I sure as fuck wasn't going to let someone get past me and embarrass me.

Since I've been watching so much Olympics, ... NFL players not being able to tackle is like a swimmer not being able to backstroke!!


FIX THE FUCKING TACKLING!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I would say the exact same thing about the 52 dropped passes.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

I would say the exact same thing about the 52 dropped passes.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



I don't think Dom Capers can help that aspect, but if you're implying the offense lost the Giants NFC Championship game, I agree more fault falls on the offense than defense.

John Kuhn's fumble led to 3 points
Aaron Rodgers fumble on his attempt to hit a wide open Greg Jennings cost the offense a potential touchdown
Ryan Grant's fumble led to 7 points
Aaron Rodgers interception was with less than 3 minutes to go and down by 17.


The interception wasn't really a killer, like the three fumbles were that gave the Giants extra possessions and Rodgers fumble cost the Packers at least a 47yard field goal try. Of course, the Packers wouldn't have kicked on first down, but follow the point, lol.
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doddpower
12 years ago

The point you missed was that Peprah was starting because Collins was out.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



lol, I didn't miss that point at all. Anyone that watched the games knew that Peprah was only on the field because Collins was out. That's beyond obvious. But he wasn't "replacing" Collins. Peprah returned to his 2010 role as a strong safety. I understand the two positions are somewhat interchangeable in Dom's scheme, but certainly not entirely. In a post trying to prove something with statistics, I just feel the need to be accurate, that's all. It makes one's argument more difficult to follow when they don't even have players positions right.

I've seen that same statement about Peprah replacing Collins several times around the net, and I'm not sure why. By all means, Burnett is the guy the Packer's hope will be the starting FS for the foreseeable future, at least until someone shows that they are better. I don't see that happening anytime soon unless there are injuries (as is the case always).

Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Just a hint, 3 net yards per quarter would be the best D in the league.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 


I don't know other teams net yards per quarter, but I think three points per quarter would have been the tops in the league too. And points are count mostestestest!

I had to add that last part because, you know, not every football fan knows that points are what matter most and it needs to be stated time after time, right zombieslayer? =d>
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zombieslayer
12 years ago

No, our defense licked ass last year - and it was an abomination. I don't care how many picks we got. The only that stat that matters is getting off the field on 3rd down - and we couldn't defend 4 yards or 15. Our defense sucked.

And I think Gunny's take on Caper's accountability is completely appropriate.

Originally Posted by: Dakotat 



Actually, the stat that matters is Points Allowed. And we were ranked #19, which is bottom half of the NFL.

Facts - the Packers won 4 SBs. In Points Allowed, we were #2 (and only 8 points away from the #1 Steelers) in 2010, #1 in 1996, #3 in 1967 and #1 in 1966. So each of our SB winning teams, we had the #3 D or better in terms of Points Allowed.

Now, I completely agree with you that our D licked ass last year. We depended on takeaways and when we couldn't get our takeaways, we couldn't get our D off the field. When the Giants played us, our D got 1 INT and 0 fumbles, and allowed 37 points. That's not how to win playoff games.

I remember Nonstopdrivel saying in the game chats how our D's lack of performance will be our undoing. I was hoping he was wrong and we'd mimic the '09 Saints. It didn't happen. The '09 Saints from a historical perspective were a fluke.

Back to Foster's point - I say every time Dom rushes 3, he should get kicked in the ding ding. I'd like to break into the Packers' facility and steal his playbook, then rip out all references to rushing 3, then put it back. NEVER rush 3. It doesn't work. It's pretty sad that a bunch of fans can figure this out, but the man making seven figures can't.
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Pack93z
12 years ago
While it could easily be said that anyone tied to the Packers defense needs to step it up.. I think we have to be tempered a bit about laying that wood at Capers feet alone.

And by example.. the draft backed that statement.

No one not named Raji could produce consistent pressure from the interior of the Packers defense.. and Raji was about the only man that defense had to worry about doubling.

That there left the protection schemes to sit and chip at any linebackers coming. It also allowed the opposition to load the protect for Clay.

So.. you have a defense that couldn't get home to the QB with any consistency.. and behind it you had a slumping sophomore CB in Shields.. Williams basically playing with one arm for most of the season.. Collins, whom could erase mistakes with his great range, missing as well.

Capers didn't have a strength of the defense he could anchor to other than drop the fuglies in and most weeks clog the run.. but being that we couldn't stop the pass.. it was of little help to stop the run.

So while I agree Capers and company need to make adjustments.. and in some cases bury a couple of overused formations, he has to have players up front that can at least stress the pocket consistency if not create outright pressure.

In other words.. like playing chess without Knights and Rooks.. you can still win, you just are going to spill a lot of the pawns blood to get it done.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

lol, I didn't miss that point at all. Anyone that watched the games knew that Peprah was only on the field because Collins was out. That's beyond obvious. But he wasn't "replacing" Collins. Peprah returned to his 2010 role as a strong safety. I understand the two positions are somewhat interchangeable in Dom's scheme, but certainly not entirely. In a post trying to prove something with statistics, I just feel the need to be accurate, that's all. It makes one's argument more difficult to follow when they don't even have players positions right.

I've seen that same statement about Peprah replacing Collins several times around the net, and I'm not sure why. By all means, Burnett is the guy the Packer's hope will be the starting FS for the foreseeable future, at least until someone shows that they are better. I don't see that happening anytime soon unless there are injuries (as is the case always).

Originally Posted by: doddpower 



Replacing him in the line up.

Not his position.

Because I didn't say anything about position, I can't have the wrong one. There was nothing to follow.

If I had said, "replace him at Free Safety", you would be correct. But since I didn't, you are manually removing small insects from a primates posterior.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

While it could easily be said that anyone tied to the Packers defense needs to step it up.. I think we have to be tempered a bit about laying that wood at Capers feet alone.

And by example.. the draft backed that statement.

No one not named Raji could produce consistent pressure from the interior of the Packers defense.. and Raji was about the only man that defense had to worry about doubling.

That there left the protection schemes to sit and chip at any linebackers coming. It also allowed the opposition to load the protect for Clay.

So.. you have a defense that couldn't get home to the QB with any consistency.. and behind it you had a slumping sophomore CB in Shields.. Williams basically playing with one arm for most of the season.. Collins, whom could erase mistakes with his great range, missing as well.

Capers didn't have a strength of the defense he could anchor to other than drop the fuglies in and most weeks clog the run.. but being that we couldn't stop the pass.. it was of little help to stop the run.

So while I agree Capers and company need to make adjustments.. and in some cases bury a couple of overused formations, he has to have players up front that can at least stress the pocket consistency if not create outright pressure.

In other words.. like playing chess without Knights and Rooks.. you can still win, you just are going to spill a lot of the pawns blood to get it done.

Originally Posted by: pack93z 



It may be a distinct possibility that Capers didn't want to flush the QBs and wanted to contain them. Forcing errors and not letting them break containment. Due to the loss of Collins (who was a Free Safety) and Peprah having less ability (at Strong Safety). Along with Williams injury preventing him from jamming and playing press man coverage. We were playing a more read and react style of D. Which took away the aggressive down hill nature of the '10 D. Leaving us chasing the plays down and putting the defenders in 1 on 1 situations more. Reducing the swarming gang tackles and making it easier for the ball carrier to break 1 tackle at a time.

One of our linemen said the the lack of pressure was due to them doing what Capers told them to.

Contain.

On top of playing prevent an awful lot.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Pack93z
12 years ago

It may be a distinct possibility that Capers didn't want to flush the QBs and wanted to contain them. Forcing errors and not letting them break containment. Due to the loss of Collins (who was a Free Safety) and Peprah having less ability (at Strong Safety). Along with Williams injury preventing him from jamming and playing press man coverage. We were playing a more read and react style of D. Which took away the aggressive down hill nature of the '10 D. Leaving us chasing the plays down and putting the defenders in 1 on 1 situations more. Reducing the swarming gang tackles and making it easier for the ball carrier to break 1 tackle at a time.

One of our linemen said the the lack of pressure was due to them doing what Capers told them to.

Contain.

On top of playing prevent an awful lot.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Well I will believe what I seen upon the field.. guys getting pushed wide.. being stonewalled and being handled one on one many a times. If their job was to contain and pull lanes.. they would have at minimum tied up more than one lineman some of the time. Pop in tape and watch just how many times guys were being arched backwards in one on ones.

Second, I think the offseason as well has dictated just where the shortcoming were on he defensive line more so than anywhere. We had three guys on the line that could push the pocket at all.. Raji, Wynn and CJ. Pickett is what he is.. a space eater that isn't going to often push the pocket. Neal was a virtual no show... and Green is another anchor type.

Add in Hargrove, Worthy and Daniels.. all three that can provide push.. Worthy and Daniels both made many a play in the backfield.

IMO, the Packers needed to build the pressure from the inside out and allow Clay and company to chase them down. If Capers was asking for contain packages as the anonomous defensive lineman claims.. maybe it was on occasion to try and let the only pressure threat beat a double or triple team at times to record some pressure.

I don't buy it for a second.

What else was Capers suppose to do.. but drop off in heavy coverage packages? Even when he dialed up pressure the downs couldn't absorb enough protect to allow the blitzes to have a chance.. so IMO he picked a poison of dropping in coverage and hoping for a stop via number of snaps. In addition, bringing pressure only puts more stress on a poor tackling secondary.. another recipe for disaster. IMO.. he dropped as many into coverage as possible to minimize the big plays and playing the numbers game with a defense without much bite upfront.



"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
doddpower
12 years ago

Replacing him in the line up.

Not his position.

Because I didn't say anything about position, I can't have the wrong one. There was nothing to follow.

If I had said, "replace him at Free Safety", you would be correct. But since I didn't, you are manually removing small insects from a primates posterior.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



I suppose it's a technicality. I don't view Peprah as "replacing" Collins in the lineup in any capacity. Burnett did that. Simply because a player steps into the starting lineup doesn't mean they are replacing another player if it's a different position entirely. Stating "Between Peprah playing for Collins . . . " is just inaccurate to me in connotation and beyond. It's trivial and it ultimately doesn't matter, but I've seen it even more explicitly in articles in the past, and for whatever reason, it's a pet peeve. It's bad technique and may mislead others whom aren't as familiar with the Packer's as most of us here are, that's all.
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