DakotaT
12 years ago

Yes WE have a say... and when they start adding things for you to pay that you disagree with what then? When you start covering all of these women's birth control... what type of costs are we looking at. Will something fall off that should be covered.

Our socialized health care in Ontario (health care is provincial)covers abortion... it pisses me off that I am forced to pay for free-for-all abortions that we have in Canada. Sex reassignment is also covered. Hell I am pretty sure that tattoo removal is still covered, but for some strange reason we recently stopped covering eye exams. Go figure.

Endometriosis has many treatment options, we only choose the pill because of the secondary benefits of a birth control option. If you are done with having children... I don't many going the pill route to treat endometriosis given the high level of side effects.



Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 



Didn't know you were Canadian. Pretty tough to be a conservative up there. How does tax evasion work there anyway if you have a job and don't own your own business? People who have jobs have a hard time sheltering money in America whereas business owners have many tricks. And what percentage of income is withheld right off the top?
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TheKanataThrilla
12 years ago

Didn't know you were Canadian. Pretty tough to be a conservative up there. How does tax evasion work there anyway if you have a job and don't own your own business? People who have jobs have a hard time sheltering money in America whereas business owners have many tricks. And what percentage of income is withheld right off the top?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Most conservatives in Canada tend to be of the fiscal variety. Not as many so-cons like you see in the Southern US. If I was an American I would probably be in the Ron Paul camp although I am not sold on his position internationally when it comes to the military.

Taxes are tough on income because it is progressive. With all the level of taxation most are taxed at nearly 50% and then we have consumption tax on top of this. It is crazy. We cannot write off our mortgage interest which I believe is available to you guys. It costs us about $40 for a 24 of beer and our dollar is no pretty much on par with you guys. That is sad.

Your healthcare if far from perfect, but I really don't think that Obamacare is the solution and be prepared to see a massive increase to your taxation. Healthcare I believe is the largest component of our provincial tax that we pay. With an aging society it is only going to get worse.

Formo
12 years ago

Most conservatives in Canada tend to be of the fiscal variety. Not as many so-cons like you see in the Southern US. If I was an American I would probably be in the Ron Paul camp although I am not sold on his position internationally when it comes to the military.

Taxes are tough on income because it is progressive. With all the level of taxation most are taxed at nearly 50% and then we have consumption tax on top of this. It is crazy. We cannot write off our mortgage interest which I believe is available to you guys. It costs us about $40 for a 24 of beer and our dollar is no pretty much on par with you guys. That is sad.

Your healthcare if far from perfect, but I really don't think that Obamacare is the solution and be prepared to see a massive increase to your taxation. Healthcare I believe is the largest component of our provincial tax that we pay. With an aging society it is only going to get worse.

Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla 



And a perfect example of why socialized healthcare was NEVER the answer..
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Pack93z
12 years ago

And a perfect example of why socialized healthcare was NEVER the answer..

Originally Posted by: Formo 



But what is the correct answer?

Letting the insurance and medical fields out price medical care isn't the answer.

Letting the drug companies rob those in need blindly sure the hell isn't the answer.

Letting some of the population go uninsured and thus hiking the cost for those that carry insurance isn't working.

Telling a sector of the population that you can't afford proper healthcare isn't the answer.

Allowing the lawyers the wiggle room for frivolous litigation suit after suit driving up the providers liability hasn't worked either.

I do agree, allowing the government to oversee it will only layer the costs and the money grab some more.

Simply put.. we the people as a whole are consuming ourselves consistently.

So again.. what is the correct answer?

I am convinced, just as history has proven again and again, every civilization will rise and will fall. And we are not on the uptick.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Cheesey
12 years ago

Because they might actually want kids. Don't correlate birth control with never wanting kids, which a vasectomy does to a man. Many women want to wait until they graduate from college before having kids. Others want to wait until they build a new house and settle down. A number of reasons exist why people don't choose to have kids at certain points in time. This idea that women on birth control just pop the pill so they can go out and pop something else is simply not true.

Originally Posted by: porky88 




So she might want kids in the future, but not now. Again, why is it society's responsibility to pay for it?
Even if it's for medical reasons, not just to keep from getting pregnant, why should she and millions of others get the meds for free?
THAT is the REAL question. So far, i haven't seen any answer to that question.
I think i should get all the meds i need-to stay alive-for free too. Shouldn't i?
If painful monthly periods is the reason, shouldn't weekly horribly painful migraines also be included?
It's one sided.....as it always seems to be.
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Formo
12 years ago

But what is the correct answer?

Letting the insurance and medical fields out price medical care isn't the answer.

Letting the drug companies rob those in need blindly sure the hell isn't the answer.

Letting some of the population go uninsured and thus hiking the cost for those that carry insurance isn't working.

Telling a sector of the population that you can't afford proper healthcare isn't the answer.

Allowing the lawyers the wiggle room for frivolous litigation suit after suit driving up the providers liability hasn't worked either.

I do agree, allowing the government to oversee it will only layer the costs and the money grab some more.

Simply put.. we the people as a whole are consuming ourselves consistently.

So again.. what is the correct answer?

I am convinced, just as history has proven again and again, every civilization will rise and will fall. And we are not on the uptick.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I never said I had the RIGHT answer. but I bet that if you hammer the pharmaceutical companies' deals with practices to push shitty RXs on people and stop the practices' price gauging of insurance companies would help.

I've talked about the HSA insurance coverage here before. And I think that system, with some minor tweaks and balances, is vastly superior to Obamacare/current system we have in place. The HSA forces the consumers (the people) to actually THINK about what they are doing with their medical practices.

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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
12 years ago

I never said I had the RIGHT answer. but I bet that if you hammer the pharmaceutical companies' deals with practices to push shitty RXs on people and stop the practices' price gauging of insurance companies would help.

I've talked about the HSA insurance coverage here before. And I think that system, with some minor tweaks and balances, is vastly superior to Obamacare/current system we have in place. The HSA forces the consumers (the people) to actually THINK about what they are doing with their medical practices.

Originally Posted by: Formo 




I have the HSA plan. I recommend them to my clients. That said I still remember when Billery was trying to ram through their heath care "reform" in the 90's. Back then it was the MSA. It was the precursor to the HSA.

You probably recall their reform was not getting very far. One of the Congressmen from my area was at a meeting with Hillery. I think he said they were actually sitting at the same table for lunch. He said that he favored improving the MSA and making it more consumer friendly instead of ripping everything apart and starting all over.

Hillery looked right at him in front of other Congressman and and said that "They" (the Democratic party patriarchs)did not trust the general public to make the right decisions when it comes to health care. That the federal government needs to be the one that tells the people what treatment they need to get.

I don't see that the "Party of the People" has changed their mind set very much in the past 20 years.



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Formo
12 years ago

I have the HSA plan. I recommend them to my clients. That said I still remember when Billery was trying to ram through their heath care "reform" in the 90's. Back then it was the MSA. It was the precursor to the HSA.

You probably recall their reform was not getting very far. One of the Congressmen from my area was at a meeting with Hillery. I think he said they were actually sitting at the same table for lunch. He said that he favored improving the MSA and making it more consumer friendly instead of ripping everything apart and starting all over.

Hillery looked right at him in front of other Congressman and and said that "They" (the Democratic party patriarchs)did not trust the general public to make the right decisions when it comes to health care. That the federal government needs to be the one that tells the people what treatment they need to get.

I don't see that the "Party of the People" has changed their mind set very much in the past 20 years.


Originally Posted by: wpr 



Interesting. I had an HSA plan when I worked at the foundry. It was the ONLY way any insurance company would insure us (the employees) because of the danger. It turned out to be a great plan for me as I hardly ever went to the docs, only for maintenance checkups. Unfortunately I was laid off and my HSA account still is sitting inactive.
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4PackGirl
12 years ago
my parents (farmers) budgeted every year for their own health insurance. they had no choice. they did it. now i'm not sure with the economy the way it is that alot of people can afford health insurance. my husband got on a group plan with blue cross/blue shield. he pays $120/month - no Rx coverage & has a $5,000 deductible. basically it's for a catastrophic incident. so until he reaches that deductible he's 'self pay' & gets slammed big time by the doctors, often paying at least twice what someone with insurance coverage would pay. it sucks but we deal with it.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

But what is the correct answer?

Letting the insurance and medical fields out price medical care isn't the answer.

Letting the drug companies rob those in need blindly sure the hell isn't the answer.

Letting some of the population go uninsured and thus hiking the cost for those that carry insurance isn't working.

Telling a sector of the population that you can't afford proper healthcare isn't the answer.

Allowing the lawyers the wiggle room for frivolous litigation suit after suit driving up the providers liability hasn't worked either.

I do agree, allowing the government to oversee it will only layer the costs and the money grab some more.

Simply put.. we the people as a whole are consuming ourselves consistently.

So again.. what is the correct answer?

I am convinced, just as history has proven again and again, every civilization will rise and will fall. And we are not on the uptick.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



1. Even with all of the above, health care in America is *STILL* the best in human history. Especially if you account for biggies (rarely counted by anyone, but incredibly significant) of life expectancy, quality of food, and, IMO the biggest of all -- childhood nutrition. Go back any multiple of 25 or 50 years and you'll discover that all the whining about junk food, unwed parents,etc. notwithstanding, today is the best it's ever been.
Most complaining about health care, including my own, demands that which has never been systematically available to everyone. But guess what, it's never been because no one has figured out how to get it (apart from stealing from others to pay for it. In the bad old days, the king stole wealth from the peasants; now, we've been conned into believing we can magically become healthier by stealing from each other via taxes and good government planning.

2. The notion that government can somehow find a way to do what has never been possible before I see as absolutely ludicrous. Doing what has never been possible before demands productive innovation. The *only* thing that government has ever demonstrated it is able to do consistently better than someone else: (i) coerced transfer payments; (ii) national defense; and, sometimes, (iii) courts and the adjudication of contract disputes.

3. I'm not a fan of big health care institutions.. Having taught for 20+ years, I have some knowledge of the average thinking and quantitative quality of those who go into insurance. Some of those former students I know were and are fantastic; far too many of them come from the bottom third, and are people I wouldn't trust a penny of my money with, much less my health care if I could avoid it.

So I'm not going to sit here and claim Behemoth Private Hospital and Unbenevolent Insurance Company are saviors. They're not.

I will only say that prior attempts to improve the way they do things through state through regulation almost always makes things even worse. And it ALWAYS makes the total bill more expensive. Just look at all the paper generated by insurance claims, reimbursement, policy terms, etc., etc. -- THAT is the second big reason why health care is so damn expensive today. It's why many of the rich who pay for "concierge care" can get far more care at a price lower than the rest of us schmos would ever get did we try to buy it through the system we deal with: the people who care for it don't have to mess around with a few dozen separate bureaucracies all of them demanding forms filled out to satisfy CPAs, lawyers, health care consultants, and assorted other experts at pushing paper and using the Excel chart templates.

The biggest reason we have went down this road to mega-hospitals with their snazzy hand-held buzzers for patients sitting in their firing-squad-styled waiting rooms, mega-mega-insurance companies with Press-1-to-hold, Press-2-to-disconnect, Press-3-to-wait-for-me-to-learn-how-to-pass-the-buck, and doctors charging 100+ bucks for ten minutes and a glance at the PDR on their blackberry? Big companies are the only ones who can afford all the compliance shit and CPAs and high end lawyers and the like.

Me, I'd ban ALL government-provided health care except that provided to necessary government employees. And my list of necessary government employees would be very short: health care to military personnel "in harm's way" and to veterans for disabilities caused from being in harm's way, trial court judges, and those who maintain sewer and water systems. No one else.

And I'd make all elected officials and appellate court judges would be explicitly banned from EVER getting government-paid benefits of any kind, and would be required to pay a pro-rata share of the care provided to anyone else (that I didn't just specify) that they might classify as "necessary employees.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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