Until one of you explains to me how we can possible be forgiven for slavery, the unjust conquest of American Southwest, and the treatment of the Asians and American Indians this conversation goes nowhere. Those wounds have not been cleansed, or the attempt even made. They are still wide open. We whip out our flags and proclaim our freedom a couple times a year and Lee Greenwood gets a few gigs and sings "Proud to be and American" and we feel all giddy. It's all bullshit because American was built on the backs of those aforementioned oppressed peoples. And the biggest beneficiaries of the bull shit are the top 5 percenters and it is why I have a strong disdain for them. Even if they were stripped of all their wealth - it wouldn't be enough to make it all right.
Originally Posted by: DakotaT
One:
Don't confuse "forgiveness" with "compensation" or "justice" or any of those other things.
Forgiveness cannot be earned. Only asked for.
Forgiveness is not deserved. Forgiveness is a gift to the undeserving.
Forgiveness is not about providing justice. Forgiveness is saying justice is less important than something else.
That's why it bugs the heck out of me that people think they are following Jesus when they are proclaiming justice as their primary objective. Jesus's radicalism was saying, "The world is inherently unjust. You are inherently unjust (and all those other sinful things, too). Having a sinless man, a sinless God, die on the cross, is the ultimate injustice. And your salvation is worth all that injustice. I forgive you."
Two:
I don't believe the "built on the back of the oppressed" argument. It simply isn't accurate as an empirical matter. Take away the slavery and all the rest of the bad stuff and America would still be the richest country in human history. The wealth created over the last 200 years is simply too big to be explained by the wealth stolen by slavery, imperialism, and all the rest.
That doesn't make all that bad stuff right. And it doesn't justify all the backslapping and self-congratulation we give ourselves for being free, etc. I share your scorn for the Madison-Avenue style "celebrations" of freedom and the red, white, and blue. Most of the recently completed network/sports world homage to the "sacrifices of Sept 11" makes me puke: it's like the exec who goes to church and does his "pillar of the community" schtick every Sunday, and then turns around treating employees and customers and family like dirt the rest of the time.
Yes, the firemen who went up the stairs were heroes. But not because they were Americans and that's what Americans do better than anyone. But because they were firemen and heroes.
America may not be a banana republic, but it's far from the "ultimate achievement in freedom" we like to proclaim it to be, either. And its moving farther away from it every day.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)