13 years ago

Yeah, you're so cool and above everything. Well (to quote Lebowski) that's just your opinion, man. Pointing out things like language/personal attacks should hardly qualify as whining.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



Yes, it DOES qualify as whining when you also use the language/personal attacks and then you try to hide behind that claim and play the victim like you did. You shouldn't cry foul when you did the same shit. That's just weak.

If you were being a perfect angel and got attacked, then fine, complain about language and personal attacks if that's how you want to be. That didn't happen. You said yourself you were being hotheaded and sarcastic in response to a post that was ALL football, you swore first, and you called the first name, and you tried to blame me for all of it. Enough already. Let's move on and talk football. Driver made it as expected. Gurley didn't. Not a shocker, but it sucks to see Gurley gone. I doubt he clears wavers. Hope I'm wrong.

Just as defending Driver and expressing frustration at the overall topic doesn't mean I need a good cry. When I perceive something to be silly, I dive in. That's what I do. Whether it's Grant getting the boot for Nance or Driver getting the boot to make room for younger guys, it doesn't matter. I'll be here.



Great. I do that too. Not in the same way, but anyway. Cheers.

Might be a bummer to lose a guy like Gurley. Maybe they should make room for him by not keeping 5 TEs. If it comes down to it, dumping Driver to save $4.5 million based on unproven potential and adhering to an ethic about "better a year earlier" is BAD for the Packers.



Maybe. Maybe not. You just stating it as a fact doesn't make it so. In 2006 the Packers kept the veteran FB in your avatar and cut Vonta Leach. Leach is now the highest paid fullback in the league after being named All-Pro last season. Keeping Henderson over Leach was a rare Ted Thompson mistake in hindsight.

Hopefully the same thing didn't just happen by keeping a 36 year old Driver over Gurley. That is my concern, and I think it's a valid possibility. Maybe Gurley is just another Ruvell and Driver makes the Pro Bowl this year. I don't know, and neither do you. Don't try to pretend you know the future.

edit**: I don't get personally offended, either.



Good. You shouldn't. But when I just said that, you responded with "Yeah, you're so cool and above everything," so I'm thinking you do get offended based on that douchey response. Or that stupid junior high comment applies to you as well. Take your pick, I guess.

When I say "my blood is boiling" isn't.



Huh.

This is a forum. Being a hothead makes it a lot more fun, trust me.



Hey, I'm all for a good argument, if you can't tell by now. And I'm no newcomer to Packer forums. I started and run two of them. So you don't have to give me tips. I'd name the sites and invite you to join, but Zero got butthurt when I put one of them in my sig, so I'll defer to his wishes of not naming them here. This is a good forum, and I'm really not here to pimp my sites. The more forums the merrier, IMO. I go to 4 of them fairly regularly, including this one.

And if you must know, the real reason I dragged this thing out (and looking back, it was ill advised) is because I really don't like being accused of being a homer. It get's too easy to put people into stereotypical camps: if you defend McCarthy, you're a homer. If you think Driver still has it, you're emotionally involved. The only extent to which I am emotionally involved is when someone floats an argument that I think is weak, I'm subsequently baffled, then I go on a rant. It's not about "Driver love" or "Favre love" or any of that.



Fair enough. Let me just say this though- It's not that you defended Driver. Everyone loves Donald Driver. It's that you defended Driver with an emotional rant, a dismissal of facts (drops last year and this preseason), and weak off-base arguments about Mike Mamula and Al Davis.

I hope Driver makes you look like a genius and me like an idiot for wanting to keep anyone over him this year. The Packers decided that keeping him was worthwhile, and they're right more often than not, so maybe he will.

I don't think he's washed up, but I know that most WRs, even Hall of Famers, don't light it up at 36 years old. I also know that he didn't light it up at 35 years old and that he's coming off an injury after being limited by injury last year. Say what you want, but it's not "silly" to think he might possibly be on the decline. It's likely. He's one of the oldest WRs in the NFL, and he's only 1 year and 1 week away from being THE oldest WR in the NFL.
13 years ago

Was that the obvious one? Wide open over the middle?

Originally Posted by: Greg C. 



Finally got around to rewatching the Indy game, Greg. The bad one was at 8:10 in the second. Wide open and it hit him in the numbers, on the hands. Perfect. Bounced right off. The harder to catch one was at 1:30 left in the first.
evad04
13 years ago
There was a 3rd paragraph to my post. Not sure if you read it. Granted, it's no Socratic wonder but it does include my take on Driver's steady dip in production. The "blood boiling isn't" thing was a sentence that never got finished -- cut me just a little slack. If I'm guilty of "dismissing" the pre-season drops, you are equally guilty of dismissing the quality plays he's made this preseason -- plays I'd measure should hopefully prove contrary to the theory that he's wearing down. At the very least, they provide evidence to the contrary.

I'm not conversationally anal retentive enough (not a dig on you) to backtrack and repeat/summarize every argument I've made for why Driver should stick around -- they are scattered in various recent threads. I'd like to think in my own demented universe that the claim that dumping Driver is bad for this team was not made without evidence. I only have 700+ posts on this forum but a buttload of them are novels. Brevity isn't my strong suit.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
13 years ago

If I'm guilty of "dismissing" the pre-season drops, you are equally guilty of dismissing the quality plays he's made this preseason -- plays I'd measure should hopefully prove contrary to the theory that he's wearing down. At the very least, they provide evidence to the contrary.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



They do provide evidence that he still has some juice, but I never dismissed that, and I never said he was washed up. I don't believe that to be the case. As I said from the start, I was playing devil's advocate because I thought his positives had been very well represented in this thread where the vast majority of people posted in support of Driver.

This is what I mean when I say you dismissed his drops-

I appreciate your completely overblown mention of his preseason performance against the Colts,



He did drop two very catchable balls in that game. He also lead the team in drops last season, as I mentioned. Nothing completely overblown about it. That's starting to look like a trend. Everyone talks about Jones' drops, but Driver had the most last year, and he had two more in his last game.

As I've said more than once, I wish him the best.
mi_keys
13 years ago

In 2006 the Packers kept the veteran FB in your avatar and cut Vonta Leach. Leach is now the highest paid fullback in the league after being named All-Pro last season. Keeping Henderson over Leach was a rare Ted Thompson mistake in hindsight.

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau 



In all fairness, Leach was terrible in his time here in Green Bay and did nothing to warrant taking Henderson's job. He got much better after he left. Sometimes players get infinitely better like he did. Most of the time they continue to suck. At the time, it was the right decision.

Born and bred a cheesehead
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Maybe. Maybe not. You just stating it as a fact doesn't make it so. In 2006 the Packers kept the veteran FB in your avatar and cut Vonta Leach. Leach is now the highest paid fullback in the league after being named All-Pro last season. Keeping Henderson over Leach was a rare Ted Thompson mistake in hindsight.

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau 



Doesn't make sense to keep a player who doesn't fit your system as well as a player you have signed already. That's not a mistake, that's intelligence.
UserPostedImage
evad04
13 years ago
Alright, after Lambeau bending me over (it was warranted, and it's left me shamed) I still feel a little fight.

My possibly post hoc ergo propter hoc addition to this thread: is it possible that some people's assessment of Gurley was inflated if he cleared waivers? I will admit that I expected him to get picked up by someone else. But I'd also contend I felt that way mostly because many have talked up his abilities. I'm also happy that he is on the PS and am in no way looking to say "I told you so!" That wouldn't make any sense, either, because the only thing I've felt strongly about with regard to Gurley was that Donald Driver is a better option.

edit: Just checked ESPN.com's NFC North Blog -- Green Bay is the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. That has to be 3-4 (or more) years in a row of being one of the youngest teams. If only we cut Driver maybe mathematically that would make us the youngest! (Kidding)
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
nerdmann
13 years ago

Alright, after Lambeau bending me over (it was warranted, and it's left me shamed) I still feel a little fight.

My possibly post hoc ergo propter hoc addition to this thread: is it possible that some people's assessment of Gurley was inflated if he cleared waivers? I will admit that I expected him to get picked up by someone else. But I'd also contend I felt that way mostly because many have talked up his abilities. I'm also happy that he is on the PS and am in no way looking to say "I told you so!" That wouldn't make any sense, either, because the only thing I've felt strongly about with regard to Gurley was that Donald Driver is a better option.

edit: Just checked ESPN.com's NFC North Blog -- Green Bay is the 2nd youngest team in the NFL. That has to be 3-4 (or more) years in a row of being one of the youngest teams. If only we cut Driver maybe mathematically that would make us the youngest! (Kidding)

Originally Posted by: evad04 




They'll activate him soon as DD hits IR.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
evad04
13 years ago

They'll activate him soon as DD hits IR.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 


He's missed 3 games since 2002, and one of those was in 2007 when a number of starters sat in week 17. That doesn't guarantee he'll stay healthy, just as Favre's streak eventually ended and Manning's appears to be in jeopardy. It does demonstrate that Driver is one tough sonuvabitch. Though his role in the offense often has him taking hits over the middle, he keeps getting up. Not even a nagging quad injury could keep him from missing much action last year. But go ahead and make prognostications about Driver and Clifton, you dirty agist you. Maybe you can order a hit on one of them.

Any other soothsaying you can bless us with? Which game this year will Rodgers get concussion number three? When will Mike Neal get injured? When will your boy James Starks miss time? What about Finley?
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
zombieslayer
13 years ago
Driver is more likely to play 19 games this season than fan favorites Finley or Starks.

Of course hoping all 3 play all 19 games. Just sayin'.
My man Donald Driver
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