vegOmatic
15 years ago

3,500 deaths in this war compared to deaths of other wars or circumstances may seem small, but this war was unnecessary and wrong, and 1 death for an unjust war is too many.

"cm_awesome" wrote:



* Edited due to personal attack not needed... Pack93z

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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Haven't read many posts here, but in case it's off topic ...

I'm thankful for my freedom. I hope those who have it, are as well.
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Cheesey
15 years ago
I know i sure am!
I watched "John Gillespie's water and woods" today, and they had a specail fishing show with verterans that got to go for free. They took 20 of them out for a day on "Lake of the Woods". They showed one vet that lost both his legs and 2 of his buddies in a road side bomb. These guys are the REAL heroes.
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Formo
15 years ago
Full Episode of last weeks (7-5-09) Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. Watch this!!!! 

BTW, if that link doesn't work, just go to ABC.com, look for full episodes, click on Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, and click on the 'Cooper Family' episode.

If you are an United States of America Patriot, I suggest watching it.
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Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Still a great read ... I'd be interested in having the updated statistics mentioned in the original post.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
IMNSHO, the biggest threat to freedom lies in the mirror.

As I expect most people here have figured out, I don't have many warm feelings about the state. I tend to think we'd be better off without it, and I'd rather let all the fruitcakes out of the asylums and put all those interested in political office in.

But, that said, I don't think the state, or politicians, even Obamoids and Bushites, are the greatest threat to freedom.

I think the greatest threat to freedom is ourselves, and our willingness to restrict the freedom of others. It is we who have asked and expect those politicians to deal with all our problems. And invariably, we ask them to act on our behalf to the detriment of others' exercising their freedom. (That, after all, is how the state has its effects, by threatening those who might choose other than we'd wish.)

Freedom only works when each person with it is willing to forego some of what they are entitled to. When each of us is willing to say, "God (or the Constitution, or Nature, or the State of Iowa, or whatever) has given me the right to do this. But today, I choose to forego what I have the right to do and have protected." And when we're willing to do that even though "the law" says we don't have to.

And that willingness to forego is in mighty short supply these days.

Don't believe me? Look at the stories in your newspapers or on the news. And count how many of the stories involve someone going to the state for an entitlement or bitching about how the state has fallen short. And count how few of the stories don't.

Freedom is about being able to do what you want. But it's also about the other guy being able to do what he wants, even if it offends the crap out of you. Spend too much time, as, IMO, Americans of all political ideologies do, trying to get the state or "society" to protect your freedom against the other guy, and pretty soon you wake up and discover...

In the eyes of society, *you* are the other guy.

And because you have been unwilling to forebear in the pursuit of "your" rights, you have no moral ground upon which to stand anymore.

What has this to do with the original post? I need to be careful here -- as I wasn't yet a PackersHome member when the original thread was going, and I'm not sure the setting of the time. But while I agree with Shawn's epigram, I also believe that an unacknowledged component of real freedom is how and when we don't fight for it.

I would never want to claim the moral authority that those who have stood against live fire have. Indeed, I've always found Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers (the book, not the idiotic movie) provocative, almost compelling: the notion that voting citizenship should follow upon service, not precede it. I didn't serve, and regardless of the fact that I probably would have been rejected, not only for W.Point and ROTC (as I found when I looked into each) but for basic grunt (eyes), frankly I consider that a failure of mine.

But IMO we threaten what all that those who have served have fought for with our constant harping on our entitlements. I'll always remember laughing at Bill Murray in Stripes when he had the line about the constitutional right to cable TV. But when I read the paper, or watch the news, or go into the political part of the blogosphere, what I see is a nation of people who *believe* Murray's dictum.

Farce threatens to become tragedy.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
zombieslayer
14 years ago
Well said, Wade. +1

I really think we ought to start taking a look at some of these laws and deciding which ones we can get rid of. That would be a good start.

While we're at it, get rid of redlight cameras. Those are downright Orwellian.

Then take the Bill of Rights and look which laws violate any of those 10. If anything is a violation, get rid of it.

We need less laws, not more.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Yep, when it takes four year degree to master the laws ... I think somethings wrong with that picture.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago
It's that time again ...
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zombieslayer
13 years ago

It's that time again ...

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



'Tis.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (12h) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
packerfanoutwest (17h) : Feliz Navidad!
Zero2Cool (22h) : Merry Christmas!
beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
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