musccy
14 years ago
I'm obviously biased towards the democratic side on this argument, and I really believe the senators from both sides of the aisle have looked foolish at times during this ordeal, but chalk this one up as a caddy low point for Fitzgerald. He and Walker go on this big rant saying how the 14 were holding up democracy, then when they do return, he says they can't participate! :facepalm:

WI 14 not allowed to vote 


In a sign that Republicans are still smarting from the exodus of Democrats during deliberations on the budget, Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) told his caucus on Monday that Democrats remain in contempt of the Senate.

That means, he said, that Democrats can't vote on bills or amendments.

Fitzgerald wrote:

"When taking roll call votes on amendments and bills during executive sessions, Senate Democrats votes will not be reflected in the Records of Committee Proceedings or the Senate Journal. They are free to attend hearings, listen to testimony, debate legislation, introduce amendments, and cast votes to signal their support/opposition, but those votes will not count, and will not be recorded."

The Democrats fled to Illinois last month to avoid voting on a bill that would have removed most of the collective bargaining rights of public employees. They returned to the Capitol on Saturday.

Sen. Robert Jauch (D-Polar) said the letter appeared to be a "mean-spirited response from a man who lost the battle of public opinion."

Jauch said the issue of the senators' presence is moot: The budget bill was passed last week and signed by the governor.

"I am not sure what purpose this serves," Jauch said.

Porforis
14 years ago

I'm obviously biased towards the democratic side on this argument, and I really believe the senators from both sides of the aisle have looked foolish at times during this ordeal, but chalk this one up as a caddy low point for Fitzgerald. He and Walker go on this big rant saying how the 14 were holding up democracy, then when they do return, he says they can't participate! :facepalm:

"musccy" wrote:



Agree or disagree with the fines, this article's leaving out the important detail that the REASON why they can't vote is because they are still in contempt. Until they pay their fines for jumping state, they're not allowed to vote. I personally think the fine is just more political BS, not enough to dent their pocketbooks so what's the point?

But still, they're in contempt. Pay up and accept the consequences of your actions, and you get to wear the big boy pants again.
musccy
14 years ago
Would the $1,000 or so dollars that each senator owes, and the issue of being in contempt have been brought up if the 14 Senators showed up 1 week ago so they could begrudingly vote for the bill they didn't want? Would their 'votes have counted' then?

Again, I think this particular incident looks bad for Fitzgerald, but this whole out-of-state ordeal has looked like a bunch of kids throwing temper tantrums for both sides.
longtimefan
14 years ago

Would the $1,000 or so dollars that each senator owes, and the issue of being in contempt have been brought up if the 14 Senators showed up 1 week ago so they could begrudingly vote for the bill they didn't want? Would their 'votes have counted' then?

Again, I think this particular incident looks bad for Fitzgerald, but this whole out-of-state ordeal has looked like a bunch of kids throwing temper tantrums for both sides.

"musccy" wrote:



if they were in contempt last week, then yeah I think so

But doesnt really matter now...They are in contempt and have to abide by it...Right or wrong that is how it works
musccy
14 years ago
right or wrong, the republicans also proved last week that as long as FitzWalkerRove is still in office, and as long as none of the republican senators are recalled, that FitzWalkerRove's description of the 14 senator's role while in contempt really doesn't deviate from their role anyway.

FitzWalkerRove isn't willing listen to and or compromise on anything, so what purpose do the 14 serve since their votes aren't needed to pass legislation?
Cheesey
14 years ago
It's funny.
As long as the democrats had control of Wisconsin, they did what ever THEY wanted. And the republicans never jumped ship to avoid doing their jobs. Even if they KNEW their votes wouldn't matter, that they would be outvoted, they STILL showed up and did their jobs.
But the dems cry and throw their collective tantrums, and some see them as some kind of heroes.
If they think that all of Wisconsin is for the dems now, they can wait till the next election to see if that's really true, or if it is as i see it, the "noisey minority" that's getting all the attention they can drum up.
(Even if they have to do it by bussing in out of state people to try to make it appear as if they are the majority).
UserPostedImage
musccy
14 years ago
Cheesy,

I agree with you that leaving for Illinois sets really bad precedent and was very juvenile. You're also right that if you've lost power, to a certain extent, tough noogies.

However, where I disagree is that you should still be able to negotiate and have that considered by the opposition, otherwise the constituents represented by the minority aren't being represented - and on that note, if you propose something drastic that you didn't campaign on (not talking budget, I'm talking CBAs) and propose something that not a single public poll shows favor towards - then something needs to be done.

I deeply resent the 'noisey minority' accusations when you have no proof to back it up. If you can find more than 1 poll that's not from Fox 'news' that shows any majority of WI citizens favoring the destruction of unions, then I will sing a different tune.
djcubez
14 years ago
[youtube]uu3BPOAwhAw[/youtube]

What do you guys make of this video?

If the well-dressed man are indeed police officers why won't they identify themselves? If they aren't police officers are they hired security?

If they aren't police officers that probably means that A) Walker's hired a private security firm with taxpayers money and 😎 They should get in trouble for impersonating officers. I'm not saying they are or have. I'm just speculating.

The tactics of the woman recording the video are pretty blatant and she doesn't ask very good questions but the responses by the men are even more interesting. While I can understand the way they're acting it's interesting that they can't share any relevant or important information. They also never told her what the consequences of her not leaving would be.

The last part, about "considering anyone a threat", scares me the most. That's the start of a police state. That's what your Patriot Act has done for you America. Innocent until proven guilty has become guilty until proven innocent.

While this doesn't have much to do with the bill itself it has everything to do with what's happening in Wisconsin and America. In my eyes there seems to be a lot of shady dealings coming to light. However, I must admit the video itself is pretty inconclusive.

EDIT: Walker has a history  with both hiring private security firms and laying off public workers:

In early 2010, when Walker was Milwaukee County Executive, he fired 26 union security guards who worked at the Milwaukee County Courthouse. They were public employees and were represented by a union, but he fired them anyway, in favor of hiring private security guards. The county board opposed Walkers security-outsourcing move, but he pressed ahead with it anyway, claiming the action was needed due to a budget crisis, to help ameliorate a potential 2010 year-end deficit of around $7 million. After firing the guards, Walker hired private security contractor Wackenhut G4S to provide security services at the Courthouse, as well as two other venues in the county, under a $1.1 million contract.



Walkers strategy of firing the union security guards to cope with a contrived budget emergency went awry. Just last month, on January 10, 2011, an arbitrator ruled that the county did not have a true budget crisis at the time Walker fired the guards, and county officials failed to give the union representing the guards a chance to propose alternative cost-saving measures before laying them off. The arbitrator also said the annual savings Walker claimed the county would realize from privatizing courthouse security was overstated.

The ruling ordered the county to immediately hire back the fired guards, with back pay, and unemployment compensation or wages from any new jobs subtracted. It also guaranteed the fired guards at least 180 days of work the same amount of time that should have been given to the guards union to react to Walkers plan to privatize.

This means that Walkers last rash action toward the publics employees cost the county plenty.

Walkers latest budget emergency justification for attacking unions sounds strikingly similar to the excuse he used to fire the union guards back when he was county executive. The compressed amount of time he gave citizens to react to the bills provision curtailing union workers right to collectively bargain also fits the M.O. he used to back then try to privatize courthouse security. Here is Walkers M.O.: grab the authority, take swift action, and dont allow any time for negotiation or compromise.



Of even more concern than his ill-fated escapade in Milwaukee County is the fact that Walker pushed to outsource decent-paying Wisconsin government jobs to a foreign corporation. Wackenhut (now called G4S) has offices in Jupiter, Florida, but it is owned by a Danish security firm called Group 4 Falck, which bought Wackenhut Corporation in 2002. Another international company that partly owned Wackenhut, Securicor, is based in the United Kingdom. He didnt even outsource the jobs to a Wisconsin based-business.

Meanwhile, instead of paying experienced security officers trained by the state to do the job of securing a government building, such as a county courthouse, the citizens of Wisconsin got stuck with:

* less qualified security guards protecting Wisconsin citizens one of the guards even had a serious criminal record;
* the profits of Walkers no-bid deal going to a global corporation headquartered in Europe;
* lower wages being paid to the contractors hired by that global corporation, meaning less money flowing into the local economy;
* Wisconsin families losing their primary breadwinner due to Scott Walkers rash dictate to fire court security officers who had done nothing wrong; and
* the Wisconsin taxpayer footing the bill for both the global corporations charges (and profit margin) for providing security and also the back wages of the civil servants whose jobs were summarily destroyed by Walker, in violation of Wisconsin law.

Walkers dictates indisputably took decent-paying Wisconsin jobs and handed them to a foreign corporation to profit from, and he did so in the aftermath of global banks crashing the American economy.

vegOmatic
14 years ago



What do you guys make of this video?

"djcubez" wrote:



The girl is looking for trouble and therefore is crossing the line.
blank
musccy
14 years ago
I just watched a little bit of the video about the parking discrepancy and saw all that I needed. I don't mind seeing Walker exposed for who he is, or cast in a negative light, but I don't really care for fake Koch calls, or tmz-like videos such as this one.

When you put people on the spot like this you're going to get them at their worst, or at least they won't be amenable to requests and questions. Put yourself in their shoes, you'd probably look pretty bad as well.
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