Unions have outlived their usefullness. All they do now is protect fuck offs and make it impossible for anyone to get fired. I knew someone that worked next to a guy that was drunk off his ass everyday, but nothing was done about it because the union wouldn't allow the employer to do a breathalyzer.

If unions ceased to exist this world would be a much better place.

I consider myself a fiscal conservative and a social moderate, but I'd have to disagree with you here. You had a bad experience with a union, but that's not to say that all unions outweigh the good with bad any more than any non-unionized business. For example, my company doesn't fire fuckheads because...

1. Milwaukee's job pool is shit and full of lazy workers
2. People that are smart and articulate during interviews can end up abandoning all common sense upon hiring
3. We're already shortstaffed and while we can hire new employees just like that, we're not guaranteed an upgrade in quality and there's the problem with the expense of training a new employee

Unionized and non-unionized businesses have their problems. We're both in agreement that Unions go way too far to protect employees that don't give a flying fuck about their jobs, but to make a statement as extreme as "If unions ceased to exist this world would be a much better place" is a bit silly. If only it were that simple 🙂

Saying not all unions are bad, is like saying not all Philly fans are douchebags.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a few out there that don't cater to incompetent workers, but they are few and far between.

No One can ever talk in absolutes.. as past death, there are few absolutes in this time line we call life.

One can always make an argument against a statement under the shade of speaking in absolutes.

Again.. there are some admirable traits of both Union and Non Union shops, but it still comes down to those that wield their responsibility responsibly, effectively and most important fairly. Regardless if they are on the management side, the workers, and in a union shop the stewards and Union heads.

If you have failure in those in position that should lead, it doesn't matter the work environment, union or non union, you will have issues.

My complaint with the Union is it holds back the worker that excels tying him to weak workers with tenure ruling in most cases. That directly counters what should drive a free market mentality in which the country was founded upon.

Basically.. there is difference between working efficiently and effectively verse having tenure by just putting in your time in the workforce. The Unions I have studied in school, experienced in life, and read about today favor the later more than the former.

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You could flip that around though, and what's the incentive for a school district to hire someone with a masters, years of experience, or who sought additional training through workshops, etc? They come at an added cost.

I see the points made about the entitlement and complacency that could accompany unions, but the alternative can encourage a situation where cheap, inexperienced, naiive labor is adventageous to a company or school motivated to maximize profits.

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It's quite obvious Walker is just going on a union-busting, democrat-weakening tirade. I don't think it can be much clearer. Not that I completely endorse this video or that I even agree with Maddow.

Yeah Musccy, in labor intensive jobs you want men with weak minds and strong backs. Of course there's that little moral dilemma about fucking them over that so many entrepenuers have no problem overlooking, that I take exception with. Making money off others has always been how it has been done throughout the centuries, but the American Labor movement made sure the employer was held accountable for benefits and a fair wage. The problem is that the Unions were run by corrupt men and in a lot of cases, overnegotiated the worth of the union member. The labor unions are just as responsible for the move to overseas manufacturing as the business owners.

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In the non union environment there are many jobs that hold requirements to hold said position. Public schools are founded upon the premise of teaching our youth and ensuring the future of this country. That shapes their main focus, not a profit and bottom line.

If teaching is your desire in life, which it is for many, you more than likely are going to be in it for those rewards more than the income compensation tied to it. And for the majority it is, and those are the ones that you desire teaching the youth over a tenured teachers just coasting until retirement and not interested in the main goal.. teaching.

I have no issue with funding the school district and the teachers via my property tax each year. I have no issue with treating the teachers fairly and equally to those in the private sector. None.

But if the cost is imbalanced to the rest of society in the benefits they receive and thus the cost to me, which in essence is getting double hit with the health care burden (Paying mine and theirs via tax dollar) than yes I will speak in opposition and ask that it be more in sync with society.

But then again, I wish the health care system to be reformed overall to control costs for all to ensure that all can afford proper health care and not go without because of cost.. and cost alone.

Now on the Union subject of the teachers themselves, set a standard in which the teachers that truly go above are rewarded verse the one just bidding time waiting for retirement, and reward those rightfully excelling over the others.. I would be more pro union.

Instead, they are compensated more on tenure than merit.

Of course that is not the only issue with the American workforce.. as there are many crooked bastards sitting in the cushy leather chair pulling the strings and cheating their employees like a replaceable pawn.

But just like Walker may be learning.. don't bite off more than you can chew in one sitting. In place.. start aligning the pieces one by one to start to place the issues in check.

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Agreed.. when the Union conceded and agree to meet Walkers budget terms post haste.. it pulled down the robe in which Walker was hiding behind and will push more to scrutinize his numbers more closely to see just how framed they were to fit his argument.

IMO.. this country is getting closer and closer to turning on its government.. events (where the real agenda seems cloaked behind a righteous issue) like this only push it closer to reality. And no matter who or how someone attempts to clean up this mess we have gotten ourselves in as a country.. I feel that sooner or later a revolution of sorts is on the horizon.

I just hope it is with the pen and votes verse sword and bloodshed.

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But then how do you define merit? If your kids do well on the SOLs? They can memorize the periodic table and when the cotton gin was invented but never acquired the critical thinking skills to decide if they want white or wheat at subway. Conversely, if you focus more on project/inquisition based learning, you risk your students not passing the tests and ultimately limiting federal funding to your school.

I'm playing devils advocate rather than attacking your comments, pack93z. You raise good points about double taxes not only for health insurance, but what if you send your kid to a private school - it's triple taxes. On the other hand I don't agree with dissolving unions for what appears to be political gains disguised in public comments behind rationale that it helps districts financially/reduces teacher complacency - neither of which are cut and dry truths.

I work for a private college, no union, and have absolutely zero incentives in my contract to receive further education or be strive for success other than to AVOID being fired when my contract is up for review each year. I'm the lobotomized cheap grunt labor that will accept being undercompensated because I enjoy my job, which my school thrives on. I'm not looking for sympathy, I've made my own bed and it's life...I'm just saying it's not an ideal situation and is part of the reason I side with keeping the unions in tact even at the risk of having a few freeloaders coasting to retirement on the payroll.