Wisconsin Scott Walker??· Page 6

dhazer
Veteran Member

14 years ago

If you had a union contract you could negotiate a deal, without it, you have nothing, and can be easily replaced by the next avg joe.

"Pack93z" wrote:

Welcome to how the private sector works.

"K_Buz" wrote:

If the Union had a measure in it to prevent the weak workers (you know that ones that don't want to work) from retaining their jobs and would fairly reward those that excelled at their positions, I would be more in favor of a union.

But reality is that many "weak" workers hide behind the protection of the union.. that is my issue with the unions I have had contact with. For the record I ran a union shop glass plant in Merrill, WI for several years. Although we grew a common relationship over my tenure, the reality was that it was very difficult to remove a worker that didn't want to work effectively.

Ridiculously difficult.

In the non union environment, you must carry your own accord.. or face the reality that you are under performing and can be replaced.

From a management standpoint, non union promotes a better environment to promote efficiency..

I have been in both situations here, and I would gladly pay my union dues and have a job then to work without a union. I have seen people get fired just because the boss didn't like how they acted outside of work. Remember without a union, you can be fired for anything and you can't say a damn thing about it.

I have also seen the bad unions like PackZ was talking about that wouldn't let anyone get fired, and I have also been in some that the union reps knew what kind of workers guys were and if they were not doing well they wouldn't fight that hard to keep them.

Btw (forgot who it was that was whining about the unions and sat there and said I am unemployed) you do know McDonald hires all the time, or will that be a pay cut from your unemployment checks you receive?

You want to save money in the state make the people that are capable of working get off their asses and work and not say well I won't work their I would make less money than I am on Unemployment. That shit just pisses me off.

I can't believe that talking the right away from collective bargaining would have even made it this far. I guess if I went in for a job and said well I would take a 50 cent paycut if you give me better insurance benefits. Compared to having them say hey your getting 50 cents less and your benefit costs are going on and there is nothing you can do about it.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

dhazer
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#52

Exactly. Unions set up a system in which it's absurdly difficult to replace ineptitude.

I'm no Scott Walker supporter, but I hope he does bust the unions. It would be delightful to watch all these pampered public servants scurrying around like cockroaches now that their sweet benefits packages have been exposed to public scrutiny.

They'll finally find out what it's like to be in public service without the perks of a union.

You know, kind of what it's like to be in the military.

P.S. My wife's a teacher. We stand to lose from this as much as anyone.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

Rourke so your saying being in the military don't have no perks?

I didn't get a $25,000 sign on bonus, or free education. Hell I don't get free room and board for the 1st 8 weeks. Granted you go off to war and some people actually do see action, but I could almost bank that cops in Chicago and New York are in more danger than most military personnel.

Plus I know a few guys that have been to Iraq and they sure liked their paychecks they were getting. So don't be going on and comparing the military with cops.

I went to college with a female cop and your telling my getting paid $9.25 is worth putting your life on the line everytime you get called out. You think these cops make such great money you should check again.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#53

In La Crosse, a town of 51,000, cops start out at about $36,000 the last time I looked into it, which was several years ago. The figures you cited are about what security guards make, not sworn cops; you might want to check that again.

There's no such thing as a $25,000 sign-on bonus anymore, except for maybe Special Forces, and even that's doubtful. The army has essentially eliminated all sign-on and reenlistment bonuses. They're now offering bonuses of around $1500 for six years for many MOSs, and many others aren't offering any at all.

You missed the entire point of my post anyway. The point is the military is forbidden by law from organizing or collectively bargaining. You do what you're told, you get what you're given, and you have essentially no say in it.

We'll see how willing these supposedly benevolent public servants are to stay in their berths when they aren't as guaranteed anymore. It's always fun watching people who like to say "it's not about the money" squawk when money issues get raised.

musccy
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#54

It's always fun watching people who like to say "it's not about the money" squawk when money issues get raised.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

It's also fun to watch people who say it's only about the money that the state doesn't have introduce $117 million in tax cuts 2 week before a supposed non-negotiable, binding budget crisis, to abolish all public unions except (and very curiously I might add) the 3 who most fervently supported him in 2010 - a move that he has yet to make any attempt to justify as a BUDGET SAVING maneuver, and (I'll admit this is a rumor) create 35 new positions in his office AND give 5% pay increases to his appointed positions.

vegOmatic
Registered

14 years ago

#55

PO's me off to no end those who say it's about the rights of unions forget that taxpayers also have rights. It's been way too long the governor has been bought and paid for by the unions.

It's time to change that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's time for WEAC and the rest of them to pull their own weight.

blank

musccy
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#56

...and private interest groups haven't "bought and paid for" other governors?!?

According to Erpenbach, the unions have agreed to pay Walkers' proposed pension and health care increases...so he's getting the budget mending money he claims is the only thing he's after, but still won't budge on unions. Sounds like he's just interested in demolishing unions for political gain.

MontanaBob
Registered

14 years ago

#57

Boy, following this on the news and in the paper makes me glad I moved out of Wisconsin a long time ago. Montana has problems too, but not like Wisconsin.

Arguments can be made back and forth about unions and it will never be settled. Good, bad, or ugly. As a teacher, I was in the NEA and related unions, (Wisconsin Education Assoc. and Montana Education Ass0c.) for 42 years. I have seen the good and the bad from unions. Examples:

Good: protecting workers rights to unjust firings just because the administrator doesn't like this person. (actual case in Montana)

Bad: protecting workers rights to be dismissed because they were not a good teacher. Tenure! Shouldn't be tenure laws. If I was not fit to be a teachers or plain out lousy....get rid of me.

Good: Helping protect negotiated contracts and benefits that were agreed upon. Several years ago Missoula School board wanted to cut all teachers pay by 7 1/2 % for two years to make up a shortfall in $$$. The shit hit the fan and after a one day protest, the board somehow found the money.

Bad: And this one burns my ass. A union telling me how to vote and who to vote for and support. I'm not Democrat or Republican. I vote for who I think would do the best job for that position their running for. Several years ago I was at a convention and the state union president was making a big deal to anyone who would listen to vote for this Democrat for President. I listened then said to him, "you know, If the devil himself was a democrat, the MEA, NEA, and AFT would support him."

He got all upset and walked off. Guy standing next to me laughed and said, "Now we know what ruffles his feathers."

And this is as far into political issues I get. Got lots of other things to worry about. ............so many micro brews to taste and so little time.

Anyone for a Weenie Roast?

longtimefan
Registered

14 years ago

#58

Walker never even approached the unions for an arbitration meeting. He tried to push something through Madison real fast, and it blew up in his face.
.

"dhpackr" wrote:

Am I wrong?

Been in the works for 17 months?

I hope I am wrong in reading this..

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/111389759.html

Madison -- The leaders of the largest labor union for state workers want to wrap up labor contracts with the state ahead of Governor-elect Scott Walker taking office.

Gov. Jim Doyle and labor unions like the Wisconsin State Employees Union have been working to finish the 2009-11 contracts, which are now more than 17 months overdue.

Doyle and union officials have emphasized the contracts include no pay raises and have said the administration has a legal obligation to keep bargaining with unions in good faith.

It has been widely assumed that one reason unions are seeking to finish the contracts ending on June 30 is that Walker campaigned on cutting benefits to state employees and wants to follow through on that pledge early next year.

A November letter sent to WSEU members and obtained Monday by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel appears to confirm that.

We, along with the bargaining teams, felt that it was important that we have a contract in place before the incoming Walker administration takes over, reads the letter by WSEU president Robert McLinn and executive director Marty Beil.

WSEU spokesman Bob Allen confirmed the letter was authentic and said it spoke for itself. The letter notes that a vote by the Legislature to approve the contracts could come as early as next week. After that, the Democratically controlled Legislature would have little chance to vote on labor contracts before Republicans take over Jan. 3 after the holidays.

So far the vote has not been scheduled and the proposed WSEU contract and some others must still be approved by rank and file union members.

17 months and a contract couldnt be done BEFORE Walker was elected, so now people are made that Walker didnt try to go to arbitration 1st?

Yeah a new person in place might have helped get it going, but 17 months prior and it wasnt finalized

DakotaT
Select Member

14 years ago

#59

People just do not understand that Walker can not just decide I do not want a union anymore. Therefore will pass a bill as quickly as possible, and break up the union.

The only people against the demonstrations are those who are not in a union. Then they whine and snivel...well I have to pay for my pension, and I do not get sick days, and my pay sucks, and my working conditions suck, so I do not want anybody else to have great pay and benefits.

One joker on this forum is so lost, he really has no clue what is really at stake here.

Did Walker even approach the unions and say, really the state is going broke ( which is a topic for much debate), so I think we should go through arbitration and negotiate a new contract, that may be beneficial to both parties.

No, he just tries to force his ideas down everyone's throat and it came right back at him.

Now Illinois, Ohio, Mich, Iowa unions are all getting involved.

Guess we're all crazy bastards that feel if you have a signed contract, it needs to be honored, and you, can't just say, its to expensive, so I'll just change it.

The argument, well my pay sucks, my benefits suck, so everyone else should suck to, is outright UNAMERICAN!

If you had a union contract you could negotiate a deal, without it, you have nothing, and can be easily replaced by the next avg joe.

"dhpackr" wrote:

There is hope for our friendship yet DH. Good post.

DakotaT
Select Member

14 years ago

#60

Here in Paradise, the only thing so far by the House of Representatives is to change the retirement package of new hires to an inferior defined contribution plan versus the current defined benefits plan that everyone else is currently enjoying. This is basically an assault on the retirement package that state employees and teachers gave up a lot of raises for decades ago. Now some smart politians believe they have the ethically fiber to renege on those past sacrifices made by public workers. The vote failed because it got a 47-46 majority but failed to make the 48 vote minimum. My two congressmen voted for it so I sent them a little love letter this weekend reminding them that their district is full of state workers - arrogant fuckers like you wouldn't believe.

Mr. Walker sounds like he has bitten off a little more than he can chew. Fuck with a man's pension and you'll find out where the bear shits.

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