Manning folds in playoffs. As much as people hate Favre, Favre had a better playoff record. Yes, Favre folded in playoffs too but he's a notch above Manning. Check out the SB stats for example. I'm tired of grabbing stats for people as for one, nobody reads them anyways and for another, it's a lot of work for me.

Now Aaron's playoff stats are simply amazing. Besides the game against da Bears, he can be compared with Joe. Yes, you know the Joe I'm talking about. I'm really hoping we win this SB this year as #4 for us has been very elusive, but also so Aaron can finally get some freaking respect.

OK, 10 years from now, how is that? We'll revisit this topic and I can guarantee you that NOBODY will be saying Manning is better than Aaron. NOBODY.

I've also made clear my prejudices. I do not like non-mobile passers. Montana, Young, Ben R, Favre, and Aaron were/are all pretty elusive. People forget Montana was a decent scrambler. Young was even better. Ben R sometimes just doesn't go down, no matter how many guys you throw at him. Heck, we sacked him 5 times and he still threw 500+ yards against us. Favre used to break tackles and complete passes. He'd flip his waist and the defender would go flying off. Literally. Aaron is slippery. You'd think you'd have a sack and suddenly he's over there and completing a pass.

Not so with Manning. Like I told some Steeler fans last week, put him behind the Steelers or the Packers OL and he wouldn't survive the season. They agreed. For the record, the Steeler fans I've talked to are even more sick of the Manning media blowing than I am. Yes, the Colts OL has declined but it's nowhere near either of the two teams in the SB. So that's not a viable excuse. I really don't see why P Manning gets so many excuses. The media worship of the guy makes no sense at all. My word, he's had elite Ds before (including #1, something Aaron hasn't had yet), possibly the best possession WR ever for like 10 years. If I'm not mistaken, he has an All Pro WR this year. Do we? No. Our only All Pro guy is on D.

Take 2 teams. Build one around P Manning and one around Aaron. See which one will be better. For one - you don't need elite WRs with Aaron. Aaron's more accurate than Manning, especially when throwing deep. Yes, Manning calls his own plays. I'll give credit where it's due. That's pretty cool, but not as good in my book as having an accurate deep ball or being elusive.

The other thing about Aaron is you don't even need a good OL. With that, you can use your resources more on D.

One other thing that's lost in this debate - Aaron Rodgers' current team has 16, yes, 16 people on IR including his #1 favorite target and his #1 RB. We've won games with no running game at all until Starks emerged. Yet, everyone still is making excuses for Manning. Look, Manning is not in the SB because against the Jets, he couldn't do it. I watched the freaking game. He wasn't that good except for that one TD pass. Aaron doesn't need excuses. He performs. He's in the SB with a team with more injuries than the Colts.

And yes, I'll be telling everyone "I told you so." I got pretty pissed off about the things I was called last year and earlier this year when I made the comparison. Did I take it personally? Yes, I did. It's because the attacks were personal. Not you though Porky. You can have an intelligent argument without making it personal so by no means am I calling you out for what was said earlier. That's why I'm responding to you because I enjoy discussing sports with someone who can discuss sports the right way.

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I'm still looking for a replacement rating for the current QB rating.

I'd also like some help on how many IR players we have. Packers.com says 15, but I think we've added two more who were later released. I keep reading 15, 16 and 17.

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Alright, screw it. I said I won't post stats because nobody reads them but I'm at a damn good coffee place right now and might as well. You want proof Brees is better than P Manning and Favre gets slighted whereas Manning's overrated, then Aaron's better than any of them? One word - Playoffs.

Best of all though, even better than Joe himself - Bart Starr. When I did the research, I couldn't believe my eyes either. I had NO idea that Starr was better than any of them, despite playing in an era where it was HARD to pass the ball and QBs got smeared. Nowadays, you practically look at a QB wrong and you get fined.

Flaw in these stats - doesn't include the fact that Bart, Aaron, Joe, and Brett could scramble. Yes, Brett was slow as molasses but like Ben R, he broke tackles and completed passes.


There ya go. OK, let the excuses for Peyton Manning start flying. Note that of this group, he's the only one with a losing record in the Playoffs and he simply doesn't throw enough TDs. As I said before, Aaron, Bart, Brett, and Joe could run as well. Heck, didn't Ben R run one in last week?

And no, you're not going to get a substitution for QB rating. At best, hopefully they'll change that to "Passing Rating" as passing stats only give passing stats.

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I read every stat, so quite your bitchin'.


Edit, I was surprised to see that Brett and Joe played in so many playoff games. I wouldn't have guessed it being that high. I was thinking more in the mid teens to late teens.


Edit, the QB rating is technically called the QB Passer Rating, from what I've read.

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Well good. Then reply to these stats then.

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OK, 2 more people who need to be added - Tom Brady and Steve Young.


Prediction - Aaron's going to slaughter both of them too.

Comment - I was surprised Steve was this bad. He now drops a few rankings on my all-time list. I really hate putting Tom Brady above Steve Young as I hate non-mobile QBs, but I have no choice now. We're going to get out of here in 20 minutes and I don't have time to add rushing TDs for all these QBs. I know Steve's got more than Tom does, but not enough to sway the facts.

Dammit. This actually pisses me off. I've always defended Steve Young. I hate being this wrong about something I've argued for almost 2 decades.

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First, so many more variables go into a players career than just playoff success. That matters most, but it is not the sole deciding factor.

Are you talking about now or their careers? That is what I am wondering.

Right now, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are in the elite category. In fact, I believe six QBs playing today are elite. I hate the word, but there are six QBs clearly ahead of everyone else. I think there are three more QBs that have superstar potential that need to develop. Actually, one is in college.

However, if were talking career, Peyton Manning is better than Brees. 19 playoff starts versus seven. That is a monumental difference.

Brees will never start 19 playoff games in my opinion. I think Manning has three or four more playoff years in him, but the longevity of Mannings success is much more comparable to Brett Favre than Brees career.

I guess what I am saying is that right now; Brees is in the discussion with Brady, Manning, and Rodgers for that matter.

Overall career wise, Manning is in the top 10 and Brees probably is not.

Rodgers story is still very much untold. He has the talent and the ability to be a great one. Longevity counts and we will have to wait and see how that turns out. If Rodgers wins multiple Super Bowls and Manning remains at one, Rodgers very well could surpass Manning,

Then again, if Rodgers wins multiple Super Bowls, Tom Brady may very well be the more valid comparison than Manning.

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Career. Note that I have to throw "predictions" in there for guys like Brees and Rodgers as neither have the years behind them that Manning and Brady have. I'm predicting Brees & Aaron will be rated higher than Brady and Manning, and Aaron will be rated higher than Brees. Like I said, these are predictions. It's hard to put 2 people who started their careers vs two people who are close to finishing theirs.

I hear what you're saying, but like I said, these are all based on predictions. Aaron in his career has already shattered the others' numbers for the point in their careers (except for Brady, obviously. Brady was brilliant in his early career). Note that of course I'm not including the 3 years Aaron was a backup. Is that not fair? Debatable.

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Another guy that gets seemingly no respect is Elway, we all know it was Terrell Davis who won SB XXXII, but how can you not mention a guy who is 2-3 in superbowls, and 14-7 in the playoffs winning two thirds of his games, 4th all time behind Montana, Bradshaw and Brady in # of wins.

His playoff stats wont blow your socks off, but the win/loss record surely should. The guy played in 5 superbowls, the first 3 with absolutely terrible teams. He won 2 superbowls, which is more than Manning, Favre, Marino, etc etc etc.

Ditto for Aikman, hell JIM KELLY, the guy who lost 4 superbowls, has a better playoff record than Manning.

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Zombieslayer, the official term for the stat is "passer rating," which is one of the reasons it's not a great measure of overall QB performance. I believe they should come up with a formula that accounts for both passing and rushing performance, but I'm not sure what it would look like, nor how it would weight rushing and passing.

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