And another point is that unless you already work for the firm there is no way to know everything there is to know about your prospective new employer without someone giving you more information. It just helps to make an informed decision instead of a decision based on assumptions and other people's stories. Their experience may not be your experience.

Just because some recruiters lie doesn't mean everyone connected with them is going to approve of lying.

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Recognizing that I speak here as someone who never served, who couldn't get in to the military either time he tried because of physical shortcomings ...

Modern warfare being what it is, even the Marines need remfs and other non-warrior types. But one thing that has always struck me as different about the Marines, what makes joining the Marines different than the Army, Navy, or Air Force, is that the Marines remain committed to "being warriors" as their primary mission. You don't join the Marines to learn a career or get in on the college education bennies comes after discharge. You join the Marines because you're committed to fighting and protecting the country from its enemies first. Anything else comes second.

Or should.

I know, I know, I'm naive.

But think about this. The Marines have "Semper Fi"....you know this, I know this, everyone knows this, whether we've been Marines or 4Fers. So what, exactly, is the motto of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard?

And why don't virtually all Americans know it the way they know of "Semper Fi"? And the way many of us feel like trespassers when we find ourselves tempted to the phrase? And the way virtually none of us will use it unless we are speaking to or of Marines?

Because, I submit that joining the Marines is institutionally something other than a career decision, in a way that joining the other branches is not. (And probably shouldn't be.)

I have no idea how much or when particular Marine Corps recruiters lie. I have no idea whether they have quotas to fill or other reasons that would lead them to do so. Maybe that "the few, the proud" stuff is just a marketing tagline.

But I have a hard time believing that recruiters are going to be that cynical. Or that the system is going to select that kind of recruiter.

I just have a hard time thinking of people who have worn those silly blue pants long enough to get a recruiter position as systematically making their colleagues' jobs harder. Does not every lie by a recruiter make the DI's job just a little bit harder? Will not every lie mean more recruits who are going to feel injustice and rebellion and all the rest when they learn that they are being trained to do something else? Yes, I know Marine sergeants are better at overcoming whiny young people than your average college professor; but I have to believe that most Marine sergeants would still prefer to have less whiny senses of being wronged to deal with.

Do I think some who go Marine are deluded about what they are getting themselves into? Sure. Do I think some Marine recruiter types are going to encourage them in their delusion to get them to sign on the dotted line? Sure, that, too.

But I also believe that the Marine mission priorities are different. Perhaps better, perhaps not better, but certainly different. And that anyone who thinks they aren't, hasn't been paying close enough attention.

Put it another way. The Army is a place to be a doctor, a lawyer, an electrician, or whatever. The Marines is a place to be a Marine.

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Wade, that's what everyone says who has never signed the line or has convinced themselves they're going to sign the line regardless of what anyone else warns them. :)

Still, the fact remains, if it's not in writing, it's not going to happen (and even if it is in writing, it can easily be waived at the needs of the military). Had I known then what I know now, I would have been a lot more forthright at the recruiters' office and at MEPS. Hell, I would have been an asshole. I would have told them fuck off unless I got exactly what I wanted and I wouldn't have fallen for their half truths and outright lies. And because back then they were in desperate need of manpower, I would have gotten what I wanted.

But I believed their hamfisted lies -- or more accurately, I didn't have the balls to call them on their shit -- so I only got part of what I wanted. Ah, well. That's how it goes for most.

The U.S. military is subordinate to the civilian population. As long as you are a civilian, you can tell the highest-ranking man in the military to fuck off and walk away scot free. After you've signed the papers, though, you're subordinate to the lowest man who has any rank whatsoever, and you're limited to eating the slops they feed you. If you're going to go through with this, take advantage of being a civilian. The power is in your hands until you sign that dotted line. Walk right out of the office unless they give you what they want, and don't fall for any of their excuses for why they can't give it to you. Because that's exactly what they are -- excuses. The guy next in line who has a little more balls will get whatever it was you didn't, because he'll have the guts to stand up for himself.

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I'll give you a + one Wade.

My son had a former Marine in his unit in Afghanistan. (note he is not an "ex Marine"). And all the guys loved to give him cr@p because he still had the "Marine mentality). In other words he was more than willing to to take the beachhead alone if need be. Even if the "beach" was a 10,000 square mile desert. They would tell him to pull back in his way of thinking, he was not in the Marines any more. He was in the Army and they had a different way of doing things. It was hard for him to overcome his prior training. But the First Sgt used the Marine's thinking when they went out on patrol.
They would give him flack about more women being in the Marines these days and he would always say, "Not in my Marines".

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it is true Nonstop. We had to sign for our son since he was 17. We knew some of the stuff was going to go away. He told our son not to expect everything he was told to come true. We wanted him to tell us exactly what he wanted and we would do our best to get it. He wanted to be a man and deal with it himself instead of having his parents bargain on his behalf. GOOD FOR HIM! Some of the time he got what he wanted. Some of the time he got cr@pped on.

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I love the line, You want me on that wall. YOU NEED ME ON THAT WALL!
It made the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I first heard it.

[youtube]hopNAI8Pefg[/youtube]

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Would have been? ;)


Back to the OP.. good luck young man.

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dude -

do what you do
do it well
come home safe.

hugs.
julie

Either you missed my point, or I wasn't cleqr about it, or both.

Let me try to put it a few other ways.

1. "Be all YOU can be", "An army of ONE" "(YOU) Join the Navy and (YOU) see the world." "Join the army and get A education"-- these are all saying that the Army is there in significant part to serve your individual purposes. "The few. The proud. The MARINES" -- this is saying that you are there to be part of the Marines. It's a different orientation.

One almost demands they lie to you (because serving your objectives and serving the military objectives are almost certainly going to come into conflict at some point, and they've been claiming in their whole marketing push that they're there to serve you.

The other says to you.....prove to us that you're worth joining us. And that, not preparing you for a career or whatever else you want from your service, is put up front front from the beginning. That need not lead to the systematic lying.

2. (I don't have any figures to back this up, so this is a gut feeling based on second hand observation with a historian's eye.) What percentage of the Army/Navy/Air Force enlistees that get past basic training will end up re-upping for 2 or more terms? What percentage of Marines who get past boot camp will? What percentage of each group will group will go career? What percentage will go "career soldier" rather than "career (insert job description here)? I would expect -- and again, I could be wrong -- that if one did a careful empirical investigation, you'd find the percentages rather different.

3. The notion of seeing enlistment as a contract makes a lot of sense in many ways. In many ways, joining up is like deciding on a college, after all. And if I were a kid/parent thinking about college, I'd strive to get everything there in writing, too.

But I have to say it just seems strange to think of joining the Marines that way. Do people join the Marines because it prepares them for a post-Marine whatever....or do people join the Marines because they want to grow up and be a Marine?

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Join the Navy if you really want to be an EOD specialist coming directly from the civilian sector--at least, historically-speaking.

There has never been a pure direct path from civilian to EOD specialist in the Marine Corps, to my knowledge.

Perhaps the engineering schooling is opening up a waiver that I have never heard of.

EOD specialists in the Corps are taken from other Military Occupational Specialties after their first enlistment and having volunteered to do so.

They attend the Navy EOD school at Eglin AFB in Florida, which (I believe) is the 8 months referred to in the initial post.

The MOS is 2336. There IS a basic 2300 MOS, but that IS NOT EOD. An enlisted man coming out of boot camp with that basic MOS is NOT going to Eglin, he is going to Redstone Arsenal in Alabama to become an Ammunition Specialist Technician.

That is MOS 2311. (The danger here is that would fulfill recruiter promises)

I would think it rather important to clarify just what the hell is going on with respect to "joining EOD" with your recruiter, and what happens if you don't make it...

The Navy DOES have a direct pipeline to the specialty, and they also (typically) go to dive school, jump school, survival school and some other shit, PLUS they get the PAY typical of those in Special operations commands.

2336 Marines are E-5 and above, with E-4's that have re-enlisted eligible to attend the school. Right now there are about 750 of them in the Corps. The historical number is around 100-150. They are SCREENED by a (typical 3 day course/test) You don't get selected, you aren't going, and it's competitive.

The MOS that MOST EOD specialists come from is the Infantry. The biggest lure to the MOS is the signing bonus, in addition to wanting the job. 40-50k-

They ALL have security clearances. Marine 2336's are trained to work on NUKES, if necessary (God Forbid)-- I THINK there is/was a 2335 (conventional only) but someone told me that was phased out.

There is a SHORTAGE now, but there is likely to be a SURPLUS when we start pulling out of Afghanistan, so take that into consideration. Also, the job is getting MORE dangerous, as the Taliban are increasingly using non-metallic IED's. You WILL be a dog-handler, odds-on, as that is the path the EOD is presently on to combat that threat.

For perspective, the Marines have 300 Labs for bomb-sniffing. They are in the processs of more than doubling that. There is probably going to be a dog for every EOD specialist.

IF the Marines have started a program like the Navy's, it must be brand-new, because I am totally unfamiliar with it. Non's advice is mostly (imo) sour-grapes, but this definitely needs to be sorted out before you go signing any papers, again, imo.

Oh, and don't join either the Navy or Marine Corps. Join the friggin' Air Force, and be a wing-wiper, hopefully stationed on some bum-fuck Air base with good chow in the States.

If you GOTTA be a Marine, be a 63/64 MOS path ---Aviation Avionics (tall-coin when you get out, safe) or BETTER yet--the SKATE job in the Corps, also interesting work, even the other air-wingers are jealous of these guys---MOS 6074 Cryogenics specialist-- You make liquid oxygen and nitrogen--used by pilots, and the nitrogen actually goes in helicopter blades and shit...On the flight line, left alone by others--- Best job in the Corps, most will tell you.

Trust me on this- It is by far the best advice on this forum, lol- Remember, you heard it here when you are getting your ass shot at while walking out to some GD unexploded ordnance and/or IED... Ol' Foster warned ya--


....Not that I expect you to listen at all, which kind of answers Wade's question-- One common theme of prospective Marines seems to be a stubborn-streak, which is probably a good thing, imo. That perspective can undergo a rapid transformation---The typical alteration usually coming within about 5 + / - seconds of hitting the painted footsteps at Parris Island, SC--Mark these words for future reference, lol