FIRE MM· Page 17 · PACKERSHOME

musccy
Veteran Member

14 years ago

I'm not blaming McCarthy at all...in fact if you read many of my posts (see who else needs to be fired) you'll see that I'm in support of him.

I'm just saying that you can't use the "he needs time to develop this roster" excuse for him...he's had 5 years, so if the roster/team is in good shape he deserves credit, if the roster is underperforming/shitty talent, then he needs to be blamed at this point. I actually think this is a moot argument anyway.

Injuries, assistant coaches, Woodson dropping and Nelson dropping balls that hit their palms, etc. - those are all points of discussion that are relevant IMO.

Wamzlee
Registered

14 years ago

#162

I'm just saying that you can't use the "he needs time to develop this roster" excuse for him...he's had 5 years

"musccy" wrote:

But I'm not using that "excuse". The point I was making he is trying to mold these replacement players into contenders in a short amount of time.

You witnessed this in the game Sunday night, but no one is acknowledging it.

I'm not saying he needs another 5 years, he needs these next two games, and if it doesn't work out, I feel that we will be MUCH better prepared next year. Our backups are right where our starters were in 2008, and early 2009. Why? Because they are practically all rookies/undrafted free agents/never started a game in their life.

Come on...Zombo was a back-up to a back-up. Now his backups are playing. We're asking far more from them then we deserve.

You make great points, but don't twist my words.

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TwinkieGorilla
Member

14 years ago

#163

Wow. Thank christ I don't live in WI anymore. If I had to actually listen to this nonsense every day I'd slit my freakin' wrists!

I agree with Twinkiegorilla.

bozz_2006 wrote:

RedSoxExcel
Registered

14 years ago

#164

I feel like you can't really just look at one year and base the firing on that - this applies to either giving him a pass for injuries or blaming this season entirely on him IF we don't make the playoffs. A lot of this just guessing because they could just make the playoffs and win the SB.

I just think overall, over 5 years, do I think MM could coach a team to a SB? Probably not IMO but at the same time he's not that bad, he did get a team to the NFCG. But thats management's call to make whenever they want to.

I say, give him one more year, even if we lose the next two games. Who cares. If the Packers suck next year, can him and move on.

I thought it would be interesting to see how long coaches are coaches of a team before the SB win.

Sean Payton - WON 4th year in

Mike Tomlin - WON 2nd year in

Tom Coughlin - WON 4th year in

Tony Dungy - WON 5th year in

Then Bill Cowher won in his 14th year in - which throws this whole thing off. But for every Bill Cowher, there is a bunch of Jeff Fishers (10 years), John Fox (9 years), Andy Reid (10 years), Brian Billick (7 years after SB win), etc.

Also note:

Mike Shannan - WON 3rd and 4th year.
Dick Vermail - WON 3rd year.
Jon Gruden - WON 1st year.
Brian Billick - WON 2nd year.

Overall, I say give him one more year, if after 6 years - bad results, then probably time to let him go and try something else.

I know it kind of seems like change for the sake of change but I just think its rare for a coach to suddenly win a SB in year 7, 8, etc.

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yooperfan
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#165

I feel like you can't really just look at one year and base the firing on that - this applies to either giving him a pass for injuries or blaming this season entirely on him IF we don't make the playoffs. A lot of this just guessing because they could just make the playoffs and win the SB.

I just think overall, over 5 years, do I think Mike McCarthy could coach a team to a SB? Probably not IMO but at the same time he's not that bad, he did get a team to the NFCG. But thats management's call to make whenever they want to.

I say, give him one more year, even if we lose the next two games. Who cares. If the Packers suck next year, can him and move on.

I thought it would be interesting to see how long coaches are coaches of a team before the SB win.

Sean Payton - WON 4th year in

Mike Tomlin - WON 2nd year in

Tom Coughlin - WON 4th year in

Tony Dungy - WON 5th year in

Then Bill Cowher won in his 14th year in - which throws this whole thing off. But for every Bill Cowher, there is a bunch of Jeff Fishers (10 years), John Fox (9 years), Andy Reid (10 years), Brian Billick (7 years after SB win), etc.

Also note:

Mike Shannan - WON 3rd and 4th year.
Dick Vermail - WON 3rd year.
Jon Gruden - WON 1st year.
Brian Billick - WON 2nd year.

Overall, I say give him one more year, if after 6 years - bad results, then probably time to let him go and try something else.

I know it kind of seems like change for the sake of change but I just think its rare for a coach to suddenly win a SB in year 7, 8, etc.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:

You forgot Mike Holmgren, a key figure in Packers history.
Fill us in on him. He took us to 2 Superbowls in a relatively short period of time.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

14 years ago

#166

When discussing when a coach took over, gotta consider the state of the team as well. Tomlin took over a great team, as did Gruden.

Which coaches BUILT their team and won a Super Bowl?

beast
Select Member

14 years ago

#167

When discussing when a coach took over, gotta consider the state of the team as well. Tomlin took over a great team, as did Gruden.

Which coaches BUILT their team and won a Super Bowl?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Also got to consider how many years and other teams where they head coach for?

Some of those guys totally failed with their first head coach gig... and won superbowls later... some didn't do it with teams that they built... and some spent years afterward not winning...

Also did they help their team win? Brian Billick went against what was best for his team at times.... he's gone on record as saying he rather have a high scoring game than a lower one and took chances when the Ravens were all about don't take chance on offense and just don't make mistakes and let the defense do it's job. He hurt that teams some years...

RedSoxExcel
Registered

14 years ago

#168

Mike Holgrom was in his 5th year.

Jimmy Johnson was in his 4th and 5th year for the SBs.

I don't mean it to be an exact science or anything. I just think sometimes, for whatever reason, change is good. Look at Dallas, they looked dead before they fired Wade - and their doing it with Kitna. I'm not saying MM sucks or should never coach again, I'm just saying after 6 years, what would be the point of keeping him?

I just think once a coach has had 5-6 years, why not make a change, especially if the team is not improving every year. Like this is Holgrom:

GNB 1994 9 7 0 .563 2nd in NFC Central 1 1 .500 Lost to Dallas Cowboys in NFC Divisional Game.
GNB 1995 11 5 0 .688 1st in NFC Central 2 1 .667 Lost to Dallas Cowboys in NFC Championship Game.
GNB 1996 13 3 0 .813 1st in NFC Central 3 0 1.000 Super Bowl XXXI Champions.

This was Jimmy Johnson:

DAL 1989 1 15 0 6.3 5th in NFC East - - - -
DAL 1990 7 9 0 43.8 4th in NFC East - - - -
DAL 1991 11 5 0 68.8 2nd in NFC East 1 1 50 Lost to Detroit Lions in NFC Divisional Game.
DAL 1992 13 3 0 81.3 1st in NFC East 3 0 100 Super Bowl XXVII Champions.

Overall, bottom line, when you look at MM based on last 5 years, do you think he's capable of a SB? Are you confident? If your not, then can him, if you are, keep him. Simple as that. I think I've seen enough to give him one more year.

And about Billick, after he won that SB, the Ravens gave him another 7 or 8 years. Why? If he did not revive that SB magic after year 4, why 5, why 6, why 7, etc. As soon as Jim Harbaugh takes over, they're suddenly back to be power-houses.

Like Fisher made the SB in 1999. Why this additional 10+ years. He's not a bad coach but may be its time for a change. Same with John Fox, not a bad coach but may be time for a change, etc.

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musccy
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#169

You make great points, but don't twist my words.

"Wamzlee" wrote:

Some things are getting lost in translation via the internet. I was just taking issue with the simplicity of a statement you initially made, but you've since expanded on your points and I agree with you, so we're arguing about nothing.

musccy
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#170

And about Billick, after he won that SB, the Ravens gave him another 7 or 8 years. Why? If he did not revive that SB magic after year 4, why 5, why 6, why 7, etc. As soon as Jim Harbaugh takes over, they're suddenly back to be power-houses.

Like Fisher made the SB in 1999. Why this additional 10+ years. He's not a bad coach but may be its time for a change. Same with John Fox, not a bad coach but may be time for a change, etc.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:

It took Bill Cowher 14 years to win a Super Bowl. I guess they should have tanked him after the first 13 years because what was the point in keeping him around?!? Change for the sake of change has also done wonders for Washington, San Fran, and Buffalo!

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