Cheesey
13 years ago

I can't believe the dual poon-tang dead-lady

"dfosterf" wrote:


"Poon Tang??"
Never heard of that flavor.......i only drank Orange "Tang".
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago

first hand observation of a medical student. ;)

"pack93z" wrote:



Ah, but I didn't observe these women in a medical context. They're just people I know. 😛
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago
I still think you guys are wrong on suicide-as-cowardly.

Now, if you want to say "letting yourself decline mentally that far without getting help first is cowardly," that *might* be a different thing.

But the reality is that when someone gets mentally to a point where they are seriously contemplating suicide, they are already seriously fucked up judgment-wise. And expecting them to turn back out of "courage" is just unreasonable.

Lucky, yes. But at that point in the process, being courageous/cowardly simply is not the choice offered anymore.

Sure, they aren't paying attention to anyone else. I'll agree with that. But they aren't paying quality attention to anything

I have stepped back from that brink more than once. And the most recent times I did it because, in the end, I could put "faith" (not reason, faith) in my God. But before I had that faith as deep as I have it now, I have no idea what pulled me back.

It sure as heck wasn't worrying about what other people might have to go through, though. I can't say what people are thinking/not thinking about when they decide to step off, since I've always stepped back. But I will say that at those horribly bad times other people weren't even in my universe when I did.

I wasn't sane enough to reason.

All I was is lucky.

I remember the story of H. Beam Piper. For science fiction fans, Piper was one of the great science fiction writers of the "late golden age" (50s/early sixties). He was a lot like Heinlein, but not as prolific and not as long lived. He wasn't long lived because, at the age of 60 he killed himself. He was far from a coward, but he was deep in the demons of despair.

Here's the way Jerry Pournelle told it in the introduction of Little Fuzzy,
Piper shut off all the utilities to his apartment, put painter's drop-cloths over the walls and floor, and took his own life with a handgun from his collection. In his suicide note, he gave an explanation that "I don't like to leave messes when I go away, but if I could have cleaned up any of this mess, I wouldn't be going away."

On the one hand, the drop cloths suggest a rational decision. But the inherent contradiction in the whole thing suggests nothing to me that this brilliant, brilliant man had simply gone to a place where his mind wasn't working anymore.

I just can't see it as cowardly.

If suicide is cowardly, how is it that demonstrable war heroes often commit suicide?

If suicide is cowardly, how is it that so often the people around afterward say "he/she was a dedicated family man/woman and a person dedicated to making people's lives better"? If suicide is cowardly, how is it that those eulogists and survivors, in remembering the suicide, had him or her exactly accurate right up until the moment before he/she stepped off?

I just can't buy it.

And yes, I do feel sorry for all suicides. Even Judas. Because to me, the suicide has made the ultimate choice against self-interest. He or she has damned his or her soul to eternity. I can think of no bigger loss.

I believe that God was sad when Judas gave into despair, because he knew that by giving in, Judas had damned himself. And if God can be sad for Judas, I should be able to be sad for H. Beam Piper or anyone else who steps off instead of stepping back.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago
Agreed, Wade. I think that in some situations suicide is the most unselfish thing one can do for those one loves.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
13 years ago
Wade......i'm glad i'm not the only one.
I have felt like that too many times. Things can get over powering to the point where it just seems like the ONLY way out is the BIG out.
It just piles up more and more, where you don't feel you can carry it anymore.
UserPostedImage
4PackGirl
13 years ago
i feel the same way you do wade. i think it's incredibly unfair & unempathetic to call someone who commits suicide selfish or cowardly. these people are in an incredible amount of pain - some of it possibly physical & certainly some mental. if you knew the only way to get out of that pain was to end your life, how could you not do it? i'm very happy none of you did but i would certainly try to understand why if you made that choice.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

i don't have to do research, formo - i lived it. along with the other women i met along the way. and don't ever tell me what to do again. i will seriously pull out the whip. :D

"4PackGirl" wrote:




ooo.

seriously, no whip is necessary. but black, er, forest green, leather would never be frowned upon. 🙂
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
longtimefan
13 years ago

i feel the same way you do wade. i think it's incredibly unfair & unempathetic to call someone who commits suicide selfish or cowardly. these people are in an incredible amount of pain - some of it possibly physical & certainly some mental. if you knew the only way to get out of that pain was to end your life, how could you not do it? i'm very happy none of you did but i would certainly try to understand why if you made that choice.

"4PackGirl" wrote:



Well said!

My theory is the people that say it is cowardly and selfish, quite possibly never have had the thoughts of suicide or the extreme depression/sadness/pain..But I could be wrong..
longtimefan
13 years ago

he framed it as an absolute.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



No, I framed it as a doctor's joke that I've heard on the lips of multiple physicians.

I also said I personally haven't seen it fail -- that all the women I've known who adopted later conceived.

.

"pack93z" wrote:



How many women? I only know of 3 women that adopted, and never conceived afterwards
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (7h) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
beast (7h) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
Zero2Cool (8h) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
51m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

19-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.