Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I'm not being vague. I'm saying servicemembers aren't special. They're doing a job they voluntarily signed up to do. It's no more honorable or necessary or important than any other job. People will say if it weren't for the military, we wouldn't have the freedoms we enjoy. Now leaving aside how questionable I find that statement (given that with the exception of Great Britain, there's never been a nation that truly represented an imminent threat to the survival of this country, and they lost), I would answer that if it weren't for the average Joe on the street, this country would be intolerable too. If every one of us were servicemembers, there'd be no one left to make the country we know and love. As far as I'm concerned, servicemembers are a group of people performing a highly specific function, one that is relatively minor and insignificant in the grand scheme of things and wouldn't fundamentally alter our lifestyle were it to cease. That's why the Founding Fathers envisioned a system of militias for this country, as opposed to a centralized federally run military.
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Porforis
14 years ago

I'm not being vague. I'm saying servicemembers aren't special. They're doing a job they voluntarily signed up to do. It's no more honorable or necessary or important than any other job. People will say if it weren't for the military, we wouldn't have the freedoms we enjoy. Now leaving aside how questionable I find that statement (given that with the exception of Great Britain, there's never been a nation that truly represented an imminent threat to the survival of this country, and they lost), I would answer that if it weren't for the average Joe on the street, this country would be intolerable too.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I agree, my main problem was with your statement that seemed to imply that a nurse working in an ER in the US or a teacher is doing something just as commendable as someone actively in a combat zone, willingly becoming a human target. We all serve important functions in society, and I do believe that most people are underrespected in the work that they do, everyone from food service workers to computer programmers to nurses.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
That is exactly what I was implying. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the single most dangerous job in America is meatpacking, where almost 27% of workers sustain an injury on the job every year. The casualty rates for servicemembers are nowhere remotely this high.

But as far as I'm concerned, the element of danger is irrelevant anyway. I am far more grateful to the civilian doctors and nurses who -- admittedly, away from the rigors of combat -- saved the lives of my prematurely born sons than I am to the medics I deployed with, supposedly in the name of defending my freedom, who openly bragged about causing unnecessary pain to their patients because, ya know, they might have been terrorists (and who gives a shit about ragheads and sand niggers anyway?) -- thereby violating the sacred trust to which all medical professionals ascribe: "First, do no harm."

There was a silly girl in my unit who once spoke up while we were in formation: "I want you all to know," she said, "that we're all heroes just for for being here."

I turned to her and said, "Sweetie, the real heroes don't make it home."
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
By the way, I'm going to come out right here and admit I'm a total hypocrite. Every time I see a ROTC cadet wearing the UW-L patch on his right shoulder, I grind my teeth. I always think they don't deserve to wear anything on their right shoulder, since they've never done anything or gone anywhere. It pisses me off.

But that doesn't mean I think it should be illegal to wear it there.
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flep
14 years ago
Basically


The Village People are fecked aren't they???
Formed Merseyside Nighthawks. British Champions 1992. Packer fan for 32 years
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I feel very wrong now!!!!!!!!!
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
so, was I wrong when at 10 (or 12 or whenever it was) I wore my dad's Bronze Star and uniform on Halloween? Was my dad wrong in okaying it? Were we being disrespectful?
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Yes, Wade. Clearly nothing was sacred for your father.
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Cheesey
14 years ago
There have been great points both by Non and Porforis.
There are many "jobs" that deserve our respect.
The first line of protection though, comes from our people in the military. Without them, we probably wouldn't be talking here right now.
Non has the right to his opinion. And that's what it is, his opinion. If he chooses to not put military people on a different level, he has the right to feel that way.
I also have met military people that, after talking with them, lost respect for them. But that was because of the person, not because of the overall military. There are honorable people in all professions.
The doctor that found my blockages, and the surgeon that saved my life, are honerable people.
Of course they didn't have anyone shooting at them while they were doing their jobs.
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Neither do the vast majority of military personnel who deploy, though. I doubt ten percent of deployed servicemembers ever hear (much less return) a shot fired in anger. Unless you count mortar fire zinging harmlessly overhead, in which case the number probably climbs.

By your standard, civilian personnel performing convoy or base security; medical missionaries in war-torn countries; and EMS personnel in some of the embattled areas of our own big cities should be worthy of greater honor. For that matter, so should meatpackers, nearly 30% of whom are injured on a yearly basis providing us with the food we eat (compared with the less than 4% of deployed servicemembers who have been killed or received reportable injuries). I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you, but if that's what you believe, I think it should be stated more explicitly.
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Formo
14 years ago

Neither do the vast majority of military personnel who deploy, though. I doubt ten percent of deployed servicemembers ever hear (much less return) a shot fired in anger. Unless you count mortar fire zinging harmlessly overhead, in which case the number probably climbs.

By your standard, civilian personnel performing convoy or base security; medical missionaries in war-torn countries; and EMS personnel in some of the embattled areas of our own big cities should be worthy of greater honor. For that matter, so should meatpackers, nearly 30% of whom are injured on a yearly basis providing us with the food we eat (compared with the less than 4% of deployed servicemembers who have been killed or received reportable injuries). I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you, but if that's what you believe, I think it should be stated more explicitly.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Doesn't the vast majority of military personnel have to go through at least Basic Training? On that information alone, they do more than a civilian does. Thus, they earn it more.

The only reason I'm even 'debating' this is it's obviously an issue with the military brass, otherwise why the rules stating against it? I don't know if it's a sacred thing, or a logistic thing or what.. But it's obviously something they don't like. Sounds to me like the real issue is the lack of stressing those rules.

BTW, the difference between an actor wearing a military uniform and a private in the Army wearing a uniform is pretty simple. The uni that the private is wearing was military issued. The one the actor is wearing is a replica.

I really think it's a principle thing rather than a logistical thing.
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