Announcement PH Beta → Check it out! Click Me! (you might be see "unsafe", but it is safe)
14 years ago
"Mike had to remind us twice in the locker room that we did get a win," Kuhn said.

I agree with Twinkiegorilla.

bozz_2006 wrote:


millertime
14 years ago
Rodgers had ONE BAD THROW!!! The only other bad decision I saw was when he threw it deep on 3rd down towards the sidelines. He was on the run and could have easily gotten the first with his legs. He got greedy and it cost us a first down and a punt.

IMO, Jennings needs to make these big plays if he wants to be a top 5 WR in this league:

1. Dropped deep ball last week that could have sealed the game for us.
2. Catching or breaking up the INT today. Alphonso Smith??? Greg Jennings HAS to win that match up.
3. Keeping his feet in bounds for the TD today. It was a REALLY tough catch, but if he makes that, Aaron doesn't have to throw the following INT.

But, alas, a sloppy win is better than a noble loss (see Arizona last year).

Go PACK!
Greg C.
14 years ago
I agree with you, millertime, that Jennings has been a little off his game this year. Maybe it's because Finley is getting so many balls thrown to him, so Jennings hasn't gotten into a rhythm. On the other hand, he seemed to do fine in the second half of last season, when Finley became a big part of the offense.
blank
K_Buz
14 years ago
I am confused about what to think of the Packers after this game.

The defense couldn't get off the field, but we had 4 turnovers.

Their TEs KILLED us on the underneath passes.

Rodgers looked off, but with only 22 mins in TOP, I'm not sure how much sync he could be in.

Jennings has been almost non existent this year. Averaging 3 catches/game and less than 40 yds/game.

I don't remember one slant vs the Lions. That used to be our bread and butter on 3rd and mid.

Woodson is a beast. Without him, we would have lost. He almost single-handedly stopped the lions in the 4th quarter.

Overall, I would have to rate today's game at a C-. It would have been a D/D+, but hey, a win is a win. But there wasn't one aspect of today's game I would like to see on a weekly basis.
Greg C.
14 years ago
That's pretty much where I'm at, K_Buz, although I think Rodgers played very well except for that first interception, which was obviously a poor throw.

You bring up a good point about the lack of a short passing game. The Lions were the team that used short passes as a basis for their offense today, and they were very effective. I don't remember any slants from the Packers, and certainly not any screens.

These past two games the offense has scored a TD on its first possession and then faltered. It's almost like they get overconfident.
blank
olds70supreme
14 years ago
I also noticed that the defense seemed tired, but not even just at the end of the game. It seemed that earlier on the D was looking gassed. I wish that the run game and short passing game would be more involved to help these guys get off the field and stay there. Of course nobody's going to complain when you get a three play scoring drive for a TD because you have to put points on the board to win. On the other hand, it seems that when you are thin on linemen and the linebackers have been chasing RB's and TE's across the field on crossing routes all day that it might change your offensive play calling.

Also, on kind of a related note, what has happened to the checkdowns to the RB? I understand that the Packer offense is designed to pass, but a 3-4 yard dump off to the RB can almost be or is as effective as a run.

I think a lot of it comes down to the comfort level that many fans have with the style of playcalling and offense that is being run. In the end, however, the W/L column is all that matters. An ugly win is still a win. Hopefully enough will come out of these close and lost games to make the team more effective.
blank
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
I don't watch the Packers play for the win. I watch the Packers because I love football. It is always so much better when they win. But I will sit in the stands on a 34 deg and rainy day until the last snap in a blow out loss. Even if it was the last game of an 0-16 season. Because watching the Packers lose is better than not having the Packers.

Would you rather be a Viking fan with the real possibility of a team that last year missed the Superbowl by one play and facing the real possibility of the team moving to LA because they can't fill the stands in MN?

Come on people, suck it up. Are we or are we not better than Vikings fans?
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
evad04
14 years ago

This was a very unimpressive win, so this will be mostly negatives:

1. The playcalling on third and short can get awfully weird.

Exhibit A: On third and one, they handed off to John Kuhn running parallel to the line of scrimmage. No gain. Kuhn is a straight ahead runner--a fullback. Why did they call this play for him?

Exhibit B: On third and one or two, Rodgers ran a bootleg and heaved the ball 20 yards downfield to a receiver who wasn't open. Incomplete. This one may be more on Rodgers than McCarthy. If that's a short pass to Finley, I have no problem with it, but if he's not open you don't throw it downfield to a receiver who's not open. Probably you have to try and run for the first down.

Exhibit C: Rodgers threw downfield to Jennings on third and short and the ball was intercepted. Again, the receiver wasn't even open and he just heaved it down there. I don't get it.

"Greg C." wrote:


Exhibit A: Is it your honest belief that the play as called was designed for Kuhn to run horizontally? Was the thought "we need to call that horizontal run play, that'll really screw with their psyches to see us not try to convert!" Kuhn tried to make the best of it but either failed to make a cut or took what they gave him.

Exhibit B: The bootleg almost definitely had the underneath TEs as the primary receivers, evidenced by Rodgers double clutching the ball. Finley was tied up at the LOS, he couldn't get away. Football basics: there are primary receivers before the snap, then there are your secondary options. When the primary receivers aren't open, the quarterback will try to get it to one of the other guys. Sorry if I'm insulting you, but c'mon, look at the play in context. It is fallacious logic to assume that because the result was a 20-yard heave downfield that it was the intention of the play.

Exhibit C: I don't know why Rodgers threw this one. Driver was making his break on an out route and seemed to have good position on the receiver. I think Rodgers dearly wanted that one back. Oh, and to continue my dickish sarcasm, Driver was also one of the receivers in the called play. You know, when they call plays I'm pretty sure multiple receivers are on routes. Sometimes they don't get open, sometimes the QB makes the wrong read or a bad throw.

You can't just interpret the result of the play as indicative of bad play calling.

"evad04" wrote:



Yep, it looked like the run by Kuhn was off tackle. Not horizontal, of course, but not even close to being straight ahead. That was a poor use of Kuhn's talents.

As for the other plays, my criticism is that on the second one (exhibit 😎, apparently Finley was the only receiver who ran a short route. So when he was covered, Rodgers was forced to throw the ball 15- 20 yards downfield. Not a high percentage play on third and short. I think this offense is becoming too dependent on Finley. And on the third play (exhibit C) I'm sticking to what I wrote earlier, which is that the degree of difficulty was way higher than it needed to be in that situation.

The bottom line is that when you make three unconventional play calls in the same situation and every single one of them fails utterly (against a bad defense, even), the play calling is open to criticism. If they continue to do this and it succeeds more often than it fails, then I will change my opinion accordingly.

"Greg C." wrote:


Okay, not all of Kuhn's runs are simple dive handoffs. He took what appeared to be a C-gap/outside pitch earlier. His best run to seal the game was a stretch play that he cut back to the inside -- it would seem his skill set is more varied than you give him credit for. Sometimes guys don't make plays.

And, again, on point C I think you're wrong. You're not questioning the throw here as much as you are the playcall. I just posted that Driver was indeed open on an underneath out-route. Do you expect a 3rd and short play to feature ONLY underneath short routes? Hey guys, we need 2 yards. Let's make sure no one is running beyond 5 yards deep! I don't know how to make this any clearer: the problem wasn't in the play selection it was in the execution.

So if you're script reads "three unconventional" playcalls you are guilty of editorializing/missing context.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
Greg C.
14 years ago

This was a very unimpressive win, so this will be mostly negatives:

1. The playcalling on third and short can get awfully weird.

Exhibit A: On third and one, they handed off to John Kuhn running parallel to the line of scrimmage. No gain. Kuhn is a straight ahead runner--a fullback. Why did they call this play for him?

Exhibit B: On third and one or two, Rodgers ran a bootleg and heaved the ball 20 yards downfield to a receiver who wasn't open. Incomplete. This one may be more on Rodgers than McCarthy. If that's a short pass to Finley, I have no problem with it, but if he's not open you don't throw it downfield to a receiver who's not open. Probably you have to try and run for the first down.

Exhibit C: Rodgers threw downfield to Jennings on third and short and the ball was intercepted. Again, the receiver wasn't even open and he just heaved it down there. I don't get it.

"evad04" wrote:


Exhibit A: Is it your honest belief that the play as called was designed for Kuhn to run horizontally? Was the thought "we need to call that horizontal run play, that'll really screw with their psyches to see us not try to convert!" Kuhn tried to make the best of it but either failed to make a cut or took what they gave him.

Exhibit B: The bootleg almost definitely had the underneath TEs as the primary receivers, evidenced by Rodgers double clutching the ball. Finley was tied up at the LOS, he couldn't get away. Football basics: there are primary receivers before the snap, then there are your secondary options. When the primary receivers aren't open, the quarterback will try to get it to one of the other guys. Sorry if I'm insulting you, but c'mon, look at the play in context. It is fallacious logic to assume that because the result was a 20-yard heave downfield that it was the intention of the play.

Exhibit C: I don't know why Rodgers threw this one. Driver was making his break on an out route and seemed to have good position on the receiver. I think Rodgers dearly wanted that one back. Oh, and to continue my dickish sarcasm, Driver was also one of the receivers in the called play. You know, when they call plays I'm pretty sure multiple receivers are on routes. Sometimes they don't get open, sometimes the QB makes the wrong read or a bad throw.

You can't just interpret the result of the play as indicative of bad play calling.

"Greg C." wrote:



Yep, it looked like the run by Kuhn was off tackle. Not horizontal, of course, but not even close to being straight ahead. That was a poor use of Kuhn's talents.

As for the other plays, my criticism is that on the second one (exhibit 😎, apparently Finley was the only receiver who ran a short route. So when he was covered, Rodgers was forced to throw the ball 15- 20 yards downfield. Not a high percentage play on third and short. I think this offense is becoming too dependent on Finley. And on the third play (exhibit C) I'm sticking to what I wrote earlier, which is that the degree of difficulty was way higher than it needed to be in that situation.

The bottom line is that when you make three unconventional play calls in the same situation and every single one of them fails utterly (against a bad defense, even), the play calling is open to criticism. If they continue to do this and it succeeds more often than it fails, then I will change my opinion accordingly.

"evad04" wrote:


Okay, not all of Kuhn's runs are simple dive handoffs. He took what appeared to be a C-gap/outside pitch earlier. His best run to seal the game was a stretch play that he cut back to the inside -- it would seem his skill set is more varied than you give him credit for. Sometimes guys don't make plays.

And, again, on point C I think you're wrong. You're not questioning the throw here as much as you are the playcall. I just posted that Driver was indeed open on an underneath out-route. Do you expect a 3rd and short play to feature ONLY underneath short routes? Hey guys, we need 2 yards. Let's make sure no one is running beyond 5 yards deep! I don't know how to make this any clearer: the problem wasn't in the play selection it was in the execution.

So if you're script reads "three unconventional" playcalls you are guilty of editorializing/missing context.

"Greg C." wrote:



How about a slant? How about having the RB or FB get into the flat where he's available for a checkdown? How about having more than one receiver running a short route? Of course they don't all have to be running routes within five yards of the line of scrimmage, but I'm going to go out on a limb to say that option B should be less than 15-20 yards downfield. I like McCarthy's playcalling for the most part, but I think he's making things too difficult for Rodgers and the receivers.

I will have to watch the Kuhn play again because you are seeing it very differently than I did.

Normally I like your level-headed posts, but I'm beginning to wonder if you would ever criticize Mike McCarthy for anything.
blank
CDNRodgersfan
14 years ago
To offer a few positives, I thought Woodson looked like the reigning DPOY. Looks like he hasn't lost a step. Watching Calvin Johnson have his way made me miss Al Harris for the first time as he specialized in dealing with big WR
Fan Shout
beast (2-Jan) : Thanks dfosterf, I'm still kicking myself for last week, as I forgot to change to pick Vikings and Lions... after putting in a holding spot.
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : First alternate: Elgton Jenkins Other alternates: Jordan Love, Kenny Clark, Keisean Nixon, Tucker Kraft, Josh Myers, Jaire Alexander
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : Pro Bowl still a thing? Guess Packers have three. Jacobs, Gary, McKinney.
dfosterf (2-Jan) : It's a mine field with all the players sitting, etc
dfosterf (2-Jan) : There was quite a bit of "chalk" matchups this year it seemed, but not this week coming up
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : Or we got better and by we I mean everyone except me
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : We have about six that by percent would have won nearly any season. I guess 2024 was predictable 🤷
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : You can check previous seasons. I quick did it and don't think anyone hit 70% before
dfosterf (2-Jan) : Hats off to the Beast
dfosterf (2-Jan) : I'm at 71.76% in pick 'em. 2nd place. Beast is at a flat 75% 9 games ahead. That 75% has got to be unprecedented this late in the season
beast (2-Jan) : I don't care deeply, just want some good entertaining games
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : BTW, not serious.
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : You don't care about it either!!!!
Zero2Cool (2-Jan) : NIL and Portal killed college, no one cares about it.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jan) : outside of Texas-Arizona St, it's been a snoozefest
beast (2-Jan) : I expect Georgia will change that tomorrow, but we'll have to wait and see. If they do, then only Big 10 and SEC are left.
beast (2-Jan) : So much for Conference Championship meaning something as 100% (so far) of the conference Champions lost their first playoff game.
Zero2Cool (1-Jan) : Jaire had surgery, season over.
Mucky Tundra (1-Jan) : I guess I need a new sig Pic. Boo
Mucky Tundra (1-Jan) : Eric Dickerson approves of this decision
beast (1-Jan) : Eagles are resting RB Saquon Barkley, so there is no chance he breaks the record despite being just 101 yards from it
Zero2Cool (1-Jan) : Patriots are waiving veteran pass rusher Yannick Ngakoue
beast (1-Jan) : Happy New Year's 🥳🎉
beast (31-Dec) : I want to them chant some songs for Daniel Whelan
beast (31-Dec) : Let's win one! Also, hopefully the Irish will stand with Daniel Whelan
Mucky Tundra (31-Dec) : After London and Brazil, I could go without an overseas game for a while
Zero2Cool (31-Dec) : Packers. Steelers. Ireland. 2025. Reports say.
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Matt Lafleur on if Jaire will play again this season. "Yeah I don't know... he's been dealing with swelling."
Mucky Tundra (30-Dec) : After the way they played for most of the game yesterday, I don't see how you can sit anyone for the whole game
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : I'd say play everyone. Going into playoffs at 7th seed on two game lose streak - yucky
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Do the Packers have any best players?
beast (30-Dec) : Play or Rest*
beast (30-Dec) : Should the Packers play or free their best players vs the Bears?
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Packers should be 3 - 2 in the Division. Bonkers being swept by both Lions and Vikings. yikes
go.pack.go. (30-Dec) : All crazy stuff…and good point beast
beast (30-Dec) : Packers should be 0-5 in the division, can't say I saw that coming, even 1-4
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Sam Darnold 35 TD's ... another one
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : Baker Mayfield, 39 TD's ... can't say I saw that one
Zero2Cool (30-Dec) : No matter who is playing as 7th, I think we want them to win. Get rid of 2nd seed haha
go.pack.go. (30-Dec) : That would be dhazer who was rooting for Minnesota
beast (30-Dec) : Well, Commanders are currently the 6th seed and Packers the 7th
beast (30-Dec) : Who was it in Chat, that wanted the Vikings to win (because Lions fans upset them) because Packers could not lose the 6th seed?
beast (30-Dec) : If Falcons win, Packers stay as the 6th seed and Falcons lead the NFCS, if they lose, Commanders 6th and Bucs take NFCS lead
beast (30-Dec) : Win or Loss, the NFCS is going down to week 18
Mucky Tundra (30-Dec) : if the Falcons win, how does that affect the overall NFC playoff picture? Does it mean that the NFC South comes down to week 18?
beast (30-Dec) : If Commanders win, the Packers drop to the 7th seed
beast (29-Dec) : Taylor still at it!
beast (29-Dec) : Colts get the ball and fumble turn over
packerfanoutwest (29-Dec) : Jets pull Aaron Rodgers for Tyrod Taylor
Mucky Tundra (29-Dec) : Colts-Giants now a tight one
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

5h / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

2-Jan / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

2-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

2-Jan / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

1-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

1-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

31-Dec / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

31-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

30-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

30-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

29-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / go.pack.go.

27-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

27-Dec / Random Babble / Martha Careful

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.