British
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14 years ago

Green Bay Nobody insulates themselves against outside forces when it comes to building a football team quite like the Green Bay Packers.

The Packers don't do unrestricted free agency, trades and waivers. If truth be told, they really don't seem to have much interest in anyone who's been under contract with another NFL team.

"We draft and develop," coach Mike McCarthy said this week, and the Packers might do it better than anyone in the industry.



http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/102503189.html 
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Porforis
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14 years ago
Most leftover food is worse than a randomly selected piece of freshly-baked food, but if you keep on throwing away your leftovers eventually you're going to toss some pizza away.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Most leftover food is worse than a randomly selected piece of freshly-baked food, but if you keep on throwing away your leftovers eventually you're going to toss some pizza away.

"Porforis" wrote:



Okay, you know what bubba, I ate four slices and Keiana ate two. I wasn't gonna stuff the other two in my face. Geez!!
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Pack93z
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14 years ago
My thoughts on this are simple.. we have some holes on this roster yet.. albeit a player may step up and fill, to date they haven't.

So screw this "solitary" method bullshit and fill the holes with talent if it is available.. regardless of the method.

Some of that sounds like silly pride inserted by the writer... hopefully that is not the intention of Thompson.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
musccy
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14 years ago
agreed 93. We don't get to see practice every day, or film on guys like clifton smith, but that disclaimer aside, it seems obvious that the team has holes at CB and K/PR.
Ted Thompson has proven a lot of people wrong and done some tremendous things through the draft, and maybe clifton's fumbles and concussions will prove to be a curse in Miami, but I still wish he was a little more trigger happy.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I wonder how much of our lack of movement in other teams players has to do with us trying to find out for sure what we have before discarding it in favor of someone elses trash?
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Finley88Beast
14 years ago
I think what Ted Thompson does is he drafts for now and the future.And he does this because he has Great Veterans for the young players to learn from.Ted only goes after free agency pick ups for IMO if they need someone for an injured player or if there pretty young and can help the team.
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Pack93z
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14 years ago

I wonder how much of our lack of movement in other teams players has to do with us trying to find out for sure what we have before discarding it in favor of someone elses trash?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Probably some.. but how many years do you wait for a player like a Lee or Bush for the light to come on and things to click?

Or how many times do you trot out a starter like Williams or Jennings to return a punt and extend a greater risk to your core starters?

How long do you hold out hope that someone that has proven more than once that they can't stay healthy to be a important cog upon the team?

I am all for developing players, I love to hold onto young players with upside.. but sooner or later you have to cut the cord so to speak...

That said, I am confident that Thompson, MM and the personnel staff have a better handle on it than I.. as they see things that I don't have access to.. but damn sometimes it seems to apparent from a distance that maybe they get to close to the situation to see it. IMO.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Finley88Beast
14 years ago
But it would not hurt to bring in someone from Free Agency every year that could help are team.But I guess Ted Thompson doesn't usually go to this approach,which can be good and bad to the way you look at it.

Did Ted Thompson ever pick up more than 2 players from Free agency?
A Quote from my brother Mike(Bears Fan)
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After he makes a catch
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

I wonder how much of our lack of movement in other teams players has to do with us trying to find out for sure what we have before discarding it in favor of someone elses trash?

"pack93z" wrote:



Probably some.. but how many years do you wait for a player like a Lee or Bush for the light to come on and things to click?

Or how many times do you trot out a starter like Williams or Jennings to return a punt and extend a greater risk to your core starters?

How long do you hold out hope that someone that has proven more than once that they can't stay healthy to be a important cog upon the team?

I am all for developing players, I love to hold onto young players with upside.. but sooner or later you have to cut the cord so to speak...

That said, I am confident that Thompson, Mike McCarthy and the personnel staff have a better handle on it than I.. as they see things that I don't have access to.. but damn sometimes it seems to apparent from a distance that maybe they get to close to the situation to see it. IMO.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:




What have we seen out of Lee? He was dinged up and then last year he was put on IR when he shouldn't have been. That's according to coach and player. I think if he fails this year, he's gone. I also expect him to be cut if Harris comes back.

Bush holds value on special teams, so the Packers say.

There's lots of starters who return kicks and punts. Its not out of the ordinary. And the Packers are doing it this year because I think they feel this is "our" year and are going all out. Wouldn't you rather that? The really good returners are also important on the team's starting roster or close to it. How many excellent returners are out there that do nothing but return?

If you're paying for them and will be payign for them if they're on another team, you might as well give them the three years it takes for them develop. I'm using three years, because that's how drafts are said to be evaluated.

I don't think the Packers are holding on too long to players and are going about it the right way. You need to know what you have while giving ample time for them to develop before you kick them to the curb. UNLESS you know you have someone better coming in to take their place, which, if you check the waiver wire, I didn't see anyone other than Clifton that could have helped us. Apparently he has fumble problems and concussion concerns however.
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digsthepack
14 years ago
Some folks here like to talk about the "holes" in our roster......almost imagining that other teams do not have holes. We are no different than any other team in the league....parts of our roster are our strength, most of it is in-line with the rest of the league, and some of is needs a little work.

As to the Bush/Lee thing...w.e are talking about a special teams guy and bottom of the roster DB, and a 2nd rounder that has yet to pan out and live up to expectations also on the bottom of the DB roster. Those are exactly the types of players you allow a little time to develop...or in the case of Bush, keep because of special teams benefits.

And yes, I know, Bush has been a little disparaged for his ST penalties. But, he is the one guy who is consistently around the ball on punt/kick coverage. The rest of our coverage units look like keystone cops....or simply disinterested in sticking their nose into things.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

But it would not hurt to bring in someone from Free Agency every year that could help are team.But I guess Ted Thompson doesn't usually go to this approach,which can be good and bad to the way you look at it.

Did Ted Thompson ever pick up more than 2 players from Free agency?

"Finley88Beast" wrote:



Yes, when we got Woodson and Pickett, I believe that was the same year.


It wouldn't hurt to bring in a free agent, but it wasn't until a year or two ago that we finally had a solid core to add a good free agent to. And with no salary cap this year, its hard for the Packers to spend enough cash to bring someone in, especially considering the risk of bringing in free agents.


I wonder at times if people (in general) think the NFL is like Madden. You can't pick up a 86 ranking player and put him on your team an still perform at that 86 rating. Players feed off one another and the scheme.

NFL is the ultimate TEAM sport, you have to find pieces that FIT your TEAM for the right financial risk and sometimes, you do need to overspend.
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musccy
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14 years ago

Some folks here like to talk about the "holes" in our roster......almost imagining that other teams do not have holes. We are no different than any other team in the league....parts of our roster are our strength, most of it is in-line with the rest of

"digsthepack" wrote:



I think I read that the queens have only 3 cbs active for tonight, so your point is well taken since IMO the pack's only weaknesses are cb and maybe dl depth, and then PR. None the less, those can easily become achilles heels in a hurry!
Pack93z
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14 years ago
Digs.. but just a thread or two ago you wanted the 5th/6th CB and the bottom WR to be the returner, no?

My point is this.. Lee had his shot in camp this season, and I thought he would come out of his shell.. he didn't.. but because he, nor Bush, nor Swain seemly can be the returner for this team.. why not insert someone that can..

And I disagree.. a starter returning punts or kicks regularly is in the minority.. not the majority.. and that is the point.. we are a team with high aspirations this season.

Why risk a key starter in a returning role vs. a bottom third of the roster player in his place.. hopefully one that can help in other areas but not a front line type player.

And I surely hope that we are always looking at our holes and trying to improve in any manner available.. if not, that is a shame. The writer painted a picture of us not uses all avenues to help this team, while i disagree overall, we certainly better not be biased against uses all methods.

Additionally, why in the hell is it such a negative to say, yes we have holes? I personally have never belittled the talent upon this team, just we could be better, IMO.

Of course all teams have warts in the roster.. but I would hope all teams are always trying to close them as well.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Tezzy
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14 years ago
I think this article is an interesting observation. But as they say, the proof is in the pudding. We see the alternative of this philosophy with Daniel Snyder, and I'll take TT's approach(if it is actually an approach or we have just properly evaluated the opportunities that have presented themselves).

There may be players that appear to have higher ceilings than a player like Bush, but we know what we get from him, and know where his floor is. Any player we bring in could have a lower floor and we would only make things worse. It's a never ending debate and is what makes armchair GMing so much fun.
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Finley88Beast
14 years ago

BTW.. I am sure there are grammar issues in this post.. hopefully not offending in nature to the point of pretentiously derailing the thread. ;)

"pack93z" wrote:


LMAO! +1
A Quote from my brother Mike(Bears Fan)
"Fucking Greg Jennings"
After he makes a catch
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Look at your better returners in the league, how many of them do not see the ball on offense or do not play a large part in defense? Each of them has a important roll outside of special teams to their teams success.

I'm not talking about the Antonio Chatman's who'll never drop the ball, I'm talking the Jones-Drew's, Justin Cribb's, hell Devin Hester was turned into a WR. Those three made their name and were included in the overall team's arsenal on offense. We didn't get lucky and find a player like that, so we have to use whomever is best suited for it on our team that gives us the best chance to win.

If you play scared, get the hell off the field. Man up or play baseball! Winning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing and I firmly believe that and I think the Packers are going all out this year and I love it.

The Packers are putting an elite athlete back there to get better field position to better their chances of winning games, not just secure the ball. I have no problems with that. Do I want Jennings back there? Not really. Nor do I want to see Williams there without Harris on the field.

I hated we had Charles back there in '07 because I didn't think he was effective and felt it was an unnecessary risk. If they wanted someone to catch an fall forward three yards, use Ruvell Martin instead was my thought.

Jennings and Tramon can make a difference back there and I think the risk is less aggravating.

It's not secret, I'd rather Sam Shields learn to catch and be back there, but I'm all for using the beset returner on the team back there, regardless if he's a starter. Unless it was Aaron Rodgers, lol.
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Pack93z
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14 years ago
Here is another articles that plays into this line of thought.. building of the roster.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/102503459.html 

Green Bay When Ron Wolf was serving as the Green Bay Packers general manager, the region of the country from where a player hailed was somewhat important to him.

Wolf tried to build the Packers in the 1990s for November and December, when the temperature would dip, snow would fall and the old grass field at Lambeau Field didnt provide nearly the traction as the partially synthetic turf does now.

Several times, Wolf said he paid more than just casual attention to a players hometown before the draft.

From 2005-09, the most represented region on the Packers 53-man roster was the South. Then either the West Coast or the Central Plains ranked second to the South in the last three years.

This year, however, the Midwest has climbed into second place. The South still leads with 17 players followed by the Midwest with 13, the Central Plains with 10, the West Coast with nine and the East with four.

I think thats a good thing, GM Ted Thompson said, referring to having players on the roster with a cold-weather background. But I dont know if weve ever sat there trying to decide what kind of player we want and talked about that. Except sometimes with a kicker or punter.

Of the Packers 12 new players, five represent the Midwest: T Bryan Bulaga (Woodstock, Ill.); TE Tom Crabtree (Carroll, Ohio); C-G Nick McDonald (Sterling Heights, Mich.); DE Mike Neal (Merrillville, Ind.), and LB Frank Zombo (Sterling Heights, Mich.).

McDonald and Zombo did play at different high schools: McDonald at Henry Ford, Zombo at Stevenson.

In the 1990s, when we were so good, everybody talked about how good we were playing in cold weather, Thompson said. Brett (Favre) was like undefeated in certain weather and he was from Southern Mississippi, and LeRoy Butler, one of our best players, was from Jacksonville, Florida. Weve never put a whole lot of stock in it.
Character counts

If geographical orientation means little to Thompson in the evaluation process, character means a ton.

The character of a player is really important and cant be overlooked, he said. You have to have a certain amount of physical talent and ability. Were not kidding ourselves. But I think your character and ability to work with others is a huge, huge thing that sometimes is not talked about.

The NFL is a hard business. Youre going to have hard days. Youve got to have some character behind you.
Come and gone

Twenty-five players spent time on the Packers 53-man roster or injured-reserve list during the regular season a year ago and are no longer on the 53. They are:

Offense (10): WR Jake Allen, cut Friday by Cleveland; T Allen Barbre, waived off Packers injured-reserve list with an injury settlement Monday; C-G Evan Dietrich-Smith, claimed by Seattle off Packers waivers; WR Biren Ealy, no football since Green Bay; TE Devin Frischknecht, no football since Green Bay; T Breno Giacomini, on Packers practice squad; RB Ahman Green, in camp with Omaha Nighthawks of United Football League; TE Spencer Havner, claimed by Detroit off Packers waivers; WR Patrick Williams, cut Saturday by the Packers, and RB DeShawn Wynn, backup for New Orleans.

Defense (14): CB Josh Bell, on Packers injured reserve; S Atari Bigby, on Packers physically unable to perform list; CB Will Blackmon, waived off Packers injured-reserve list with an injury settlement Sunday; CB Trevor Ford, cut Friday by Arizona; S Matt Giordano, cut by Atlanta Aug. 31 with an injury settlement; CB Al Harris, on Packers PUP list; DE Johnny Jolly, suspended through the Super Bowl by the NFL; DE Aaron Kampman, starting RE for Jacksonville; DE Michael Montgomery, cut Saturday by Minnesota; LB Cyril Obiozor, claimed by Arizona off Packers waivers; S Aaron Rouse, cut Aug. 19 by Arizona after suffering a strained neck in a car accident; LB Jeremy Thompson, retired; NT Anthony Toribio, claimed by Kansas City off Packers waivers, and DE Jarius Wynn, cut Saturday by Packers and already has had a tryout in Seattle.

Special teams (1): P Jeremy Kapinos, out of football since Green Bay.
Back in the day

When Ray Rhodes was fired after the 1999 season, the Packers had 62 players under contract. The only player left who played for Rhodes is WR Donald Driver.

Mike Sherman, who has been gone since January 2006, coached 10 players on the current 53-man roster. The list includes Driver, TE Donald Lee, T Chad Clifton, T Mark Tauscher, C Scott Wells, QB Aaron Rodgers, DE Cullen Jenkins, LB Brady Poppinga, LB Nick Barnett and S Nick Collins.

Just six players on the 53 were acquired before Thompson took over in January 2005. The list includes Driver, Clifton, Tauscher, Wells, Jenkins and Barnett. Another player who predates Thompson, CB Al Harris, is on the PUP list.
Catching a draft

Twenty-one players on the 53-man roster, four more than the last two years, entered the NFL as premium draft choices in the first three rounds.

First-round picks (9): T Bryan Bulaga, QB Aaron Rodgers, DE Ryan Pickett, DE Justin Harrell, NT B.J. Raji, LB Clay Matthews, LB Nick Barnett, LB A.J. Hawk and CB Charles Woodson.

Second-round picks (9): WR Greg Jennings, WR Jordy Nelson, T Chad Clifton, G Daryn Colledge, RB Brandon Jackson, DE Mike Neal, CB Pat Lee, S Nick Collins and S Morgan Burnett.

Third-round picks (3): WR James Jones, TE Jermichael Finley and C-G Jason Spitz.

Drafted by other teams were Pickett (St. Louis) and Woodson (Oakland).

Of the 53 players, 36 were drafted by the Packers, 10 were signed as free agents, three were signed as unrestricted free agents, two were acquired in trades and two were claimed on waivers.

In 1996, when the Packers won the Super Bowl, their opening-day 53 included 25 draft picks, 12 free agents, six unrestricted free agents, five trade acquisitions, four waivers claims and one Plan B free agent.
The newcomers

The 53-man roster includes 12 players who werent on the 53 or injured reserve at any time in 2009.

Draft choices: TE Andrew Quarless, T Bryan Bulaga, T Marshall Newhouse, DE Mike Neal, DE C.J. Wilson and S Morgan Burnett.

College free agents: C-G Nick McDonald, LB Frank Zombo and CB Sam Shields.

Street free agents: TE Tom Crabtree, S Charlie Peprah and P Tim Masthay.

The signing bonuses for the college free agents were $4,000 for McDonald, $3,500 for Zombo and $7,500 for Shields.

Crabtree, Peprah and Masthay received no signing bonuses.

The three-man crew of undrafted rookies is the most in Green Bay on the opening 53 since 2002 when RB Tony Fisher, T Kevin Barry and LB Marcus Wilkins made the grade.

Before that, you have to go back to 1994 to find a year when three rookie free agents survived the final cut. The trio included TE Jeff Wilner, LB Mark Williams and CB Lenny McGill.
Green as grass

The Packers average 25.91 years, making them slightly older than in the past four years but still among the NFLs youngest teams.

By position, here are the average ages on the 53: Wide receiver, 27.4 years; offensive line, 26.2; linebackers, 26.1; running backs, defensive line and secondary, all 25.8; quarterbacks, 25.5; specialists, 24.7, and tight ends, 24.5.

The offense averages 26.04 years and the defense averages 25.92.
How they fared

Thompson has drafted 58 players in six years running the Packers. His picks currently fall into these categories: On the 53 (31), off the roster (22), forced to retire because of injury (two), on physically unable to perform (one), on practice squad (one) and on suspended list (one).


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
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14 years ago

Look at your better returners in the league, how many of them do not see the ball on offense or do not play a large part in defense? Each of them has a important roll outside of special teams to their teams success.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I put together the two spreadsheets yesterday.. from last season that countered that most returners are starters.. lol. Go fish.

Now.. most returners, dynamic ones anyway, have great open field skills.. so of course the coaches try to get the ball in their hands.. that is good coaching.

It is okay.. I have my thoughts upon whom should be the returners and you have yours.. I agree that you play all out to win.. but neither Jennings (whom hasn't fielded a punt in the NFL) nor Williams have shown exceptional returning skills.. so does the risk outweigh the reward?

If Williams gets hurt and all the CB bump up a notch on the playing scale.. your okay with that? Or if Jennings goes down and our best deep threat is sitting on the sidelines.. that will be acceptable? Probably not.. because we failed to fill the returner spot..

To be clear.. I can less if we signed Smith or not.. it is more that there has to be another street free agent out there with equal skills to Williams or Jennings without the additional risk.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Greg C.
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14 years ago
When your team is at one end of a list and that Washington Redskins are at the other, that probably means you're doing something right.
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