dhazer
15 years ago
well Rock that one came to my mind right away but Im curious on the stat guys would that be a missed tackle or not show up in the stats at all?
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Wade
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15 years ago
I'm probably in a minority of one (again), but I'm not a fan of emphasizing "big hitting" at safety.

Oh, I'm as jacked up as anyone when the big hit happens to someone wearing purple or funny little stars on their shoulders. But I'd rather have a great tackler who can cover. And big hitters are usually pretty lousy tacklers.

For me, when I hear people saying "safety X" is a big hitter, that's the kind of safety I want playing on the *other* team.

And no, I really wasn't a Chuck Cecil fan, either.

(shrug)
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Count me in the category of preferring solid tackling to bone jarring hits that may or may not disrupt a ball carrier's momentum enough to bring him down. I've seen tons of hard hits that resulted not in tackles but in scores.

And dhazer is right -- Bigby looks like an idiot on that play.
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all_about_da_packers
15 years ago


So I got owned because you use one year of stats instead of a group of years because it would blow your theory out of the water.

So tell me this by what your saying you would take Bigby over those other 3 guys? If you say yes your on crack. Bigby can't stay healthy and he isn't that great of a player.


Now watch this video skip to around 2:37 and watch Bigby and tell me does he get blamed for a missed tackle I would say no because he took a bad angle and didn't even touch him. Stats like you post look pretty but as was stated do these people actually know if the player was suppose to be there or not.

"dhazer" wrote:




Actually I only used one year because Bigby has been starting for 3 years only, his first of which he was pretty darn successful, his second of which was marred by injuries he admitted he tried to come back too early from. If you want though, I can re-evaluate Bigby in light of all the games he has played up to this point, but my point I think still remains valid: Bigby is far from being useless. He is actually an okay player, who has shown he can be good - I've said above I would take other DBs on the roster (Woodson, Harris, Collins, even Tramon) above him in coverage, but doesn't mean he is useless.


As for the video - remember when Al Harris was targeted by AP as he went to make a tackle, and then ended up flat on his behind? Does that single play mean Al is a terrible tackler, and weak? Hell no, it means he was bested be a hell of a player - a rare RB in the NFL.

I strongly believe Bigby has something to offer, and is part of the solution to our DB woes going forward. I won't disagree if you think we can get a better starter at SS, but if you think Bigby is a waste... well that just isn't true. Marquan Manuel was a waste as a Safety. Bigby, using different metrics, has been shown not to be.
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15 years ago

How many times does Bigby go for the big hit and miss?

"dhazer" wrote:



If your asking for missed tackles, then the answer is 6.

Interestingly enough, our Pro-bowler Nick Collins also missed 6 tackles. Moreover, Ed Reed missed 6 tackles too.

The Safety Antrel Rolle, who signed a huge contract this offseason with the Giants, missed 16 (yes, 16) tackles.

Comparatively, Bigby didn't miss a heck of a lot of tackles.


Or when he takes the wrong angles on coverage?

"Dulak" wrote:



Bigby is credited with giving up 17 receptions for 158 yards out of being targeted 35 times - which results in 48.6 % of completions against.

Collins: 46.9 % completions against (15 of 32) for 306 yards.
Reed: 66.7 % completions against (14 of 21) for 142 yards.
Rolle: 63.4 % completions against (26 of 41) for 348 yards.


The main thing is the guy can't stay healthy and he is prone to alot of stupid penalties.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



Bigby played in 90.5% of the defensive snaps last year. He had only 1 penalty all of last year: week 3 against Cleveland.

Collins: 92.3 % (1 penalty)
Reed: 98.7 % (3 penalties)
Rolle: 95.0 % (2 penalties)

Here, Bigby does lack compared to other players but still 90% of the defensive snaps is nothing to sneeze at. He also gave up only 1 penalty all of last year.

All stats courtesy pro-football focus.

You know, if someone starts throwing things out there randomly - especially in question form - without any evidence whatsoever, it raises red flags. It's true in the business world, in academia, in legal realm.... it should be a cause for concern on here, too.

There is a reason why I compared Bigby's stats to other Free Safties - to show that compared to those who are supposedly better in coverage, Bigby still stacks up favorably.

He has his shortcomings, but there is talent there that can be worked with. I remember reading a post a couple of days back that said something to the effect of "get a pass-rush going, and Bigby will look like gold again"... I agree.

We certainly need to sure up the depth at the position, though.

"dhazer" wrote:



Well done! +1

"dhazer" wrote:



So I got owned because you use one year of stats instead of a group of years because it would blow your theory out of the water.

"dhazer" wrote:



No, you got owned because most (or all?) of your accusations are shown to be wrong. Nothing wrong with using the most current year's stats.
ILikeThePackers39
15 years ago
All I'm going to say is that using a missed tackle on AP as an example is almost as stupid as using missed tackles on Payton or Sanders would be. You're talking about special running backs, here - if every damn player who wanted to tackle them was able to do so, you'd be talking about a different guy.

Getting owned by AP means nothing more than you played against him.
blank
zombieslayer
15 years ago

All I'm going to say is that using a missed tackle on AP as an example is almost as stupid as using missed tackles on Payton or Sanders would be. You're talking about special running backs, here - if every damn player who wanted to tackle them was able to do so, you'd be talking about a different guy.

Getting owned by AP means nothing more than you played against him.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



Well said. Does Lawrence Taylor suck? LT admitted that more than once, he had Barry Sanders wrapped up then Sanders "just disappeared." Those are LT's words ("just disappeared").

AP doesn't just disappear, he makes the other guy fall down hard. I watched 18 games last year of AP and he has done that to the best of them.
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dhazer
15 years ago
i used that video to show Bigby does take bad angles, Not many videos of Bigby to be found. Oh thats right he has to be on the field to have the highlights lol. As was stated earlier he has missed alot of games in his career and I would be willing to bet if he is still on the team this year he will miss more games.


As far as the comment asking about Harris getting ran over, all I can say is that Harris doesn't tackle, never really has and probably never will. He is out of the Deion mold and tries to stay away from contact.
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DakotaT
15 years ago

i used that video to show Bigby does take bad angles, Not many videos of Bigby to be found. Oh thats right he has to be on the field to have the highlights lol. As was stated earlier he has missed alot of games in his career and I would be willing to bet if he is still on the team this year he will miss more games.


As far as the comment asking about Harris getting ran over, all I can say is that Harris doesn't tackle, never really has and probably never will. He is out of the Deion mold and tries to stay away from contact.

"dhazer" wrote:



Dammit Dhazer, when you post things like this it makes it impossible for me to dismiss you as a logical reasonable poster. I'd give you a plus one but only the chosen applause Nazis yield the power. Good post.
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all_about_da_packers
15 years ago

Oh thats right he has to be on the field to have the highlights lol. As was stated earlier he has missed alot of games in his career and I would be willing to bet if he is still on the team this year he will miss more games.

"dhazer" wrote:



Idiotic statement is Idiotic.

Bigby has been a starter in Green Bay for the past 3 years. He's been eligible to play in a possible of 51 games (3 x 16 games, 2 playoff games in 07, 1 playoff game in 09).

Bigby has played in: 40 out of 51 games

Aaron Kampman has played in: 41 out of 51 games.

Al Harris has played in: 40 out of 51 games.


Now you might say, hazer, "Wait AADP, Harris and Kampman suffered serious injuries that limited their playing time."


Fact: Bigby injures ankle in week 3 of pre-season last year. Tries to play on throughout the season, despite his injury.

Fact: Packers claim Bigby suffers season-ending SHOULDER injury. One week later, he HAS SURGERY ON HIS ANKLE. He has no work done on his supposed "injured" shoulder at all after going on IR.

Fact: Packers fail to disclose the ankle injury for all except 2 weeks of the year.  



See where I'm going with this? I'll put it simply: When player gets a bad injury, he is not going to be able to play week in week out; his availability is going to be an issue.

Take away Bigby's shortened injury season and he has played in 32 of a possible 35 games (32 regular season + 3 playoff games).

Yeah Bigby has missed some games, but most of them because of a serious ankle injury that he suffered in his second year starting. Otherwise, he's been pretty reliable in terms of staying on the field.

Again, Bigby is serviceable. He should be part of our Safeties group going forward. At the very least, he provides you an option as a spot-starter in case of injuries.
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