At least they're honest: Tea Party supporters are hypocrites· Page 2

Wade
Veteran Member

14 years ago

Instead of taking benefits from those that really need it via the form of a true disability.. why not go through the system and kick off those that are abusing the system.. ones that can do other physical activities.. yet can't seem to work.

We have a gent in my town that hunts and fishes every single day.. draws SSI because he is too disabled to work.. and it pisses me off every time I see that asshole. Claims he has some disease that effects him and he cannot hold down a job. Yet he can hunt or fish freely..

I would be very open to culling the system of those that could work but abuse the system so they don't have to.

"pack93z" wrote:

I agree.

However, even if you get rid of all the cheats and abusers overnight (unlikely since its harder than people think to identify them in a lot of cases), that isn't going to come close to solving the problem.

The problem is that the system is actuarially unsound and has been for decades. You'd need financial acumen that is systematically on the order of 500% better than Warren Buffett in picking a portfolio.

When you have a system as big as social security/medicare/medicaid, you're going to get cheats, frauds, and leeches. Unfortunately, with social security/medicare/medicaid, you have also had accounting that makes Enron look like the highest standards of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

DakotaT
Select Member

14 years ago

#12

Aren't we missing one aspect of this conversation, and that being benefits going out to people that have never paid one cent in. I'm sorry but the big piggy bank should only be accessible to those that threw in some coin.

I think that is a huge issue for the tea baggers that is not talked about in the article. I agree with 93 in that too many people are sucking off the system could actually be doing something. If you were a laborer of some kind and get injured, shouldn't the government provide for you only until you are retrained to do some kind of desk work.

Reform in the current system is definitely overdo and a necessity going forward. The problem is that this world has gotten to politically correct and we are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that we have forgot common sense.

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#13

Wouldn't the only people who were sucking out without having paid in be people who've never been employed in the first place? Unlike our progressive income tax, FICA and SICA (Social Security and Medicare taxes) are regressive in that everyone, regardless of income level, pays them. They are deducted by the employer before the employee even receives the paycheck. Therefore, if someone has ever had a job, they've paid into the system. Even clergy pay FICA and SICA, though they're exempt from income taxes. And technically, if you've never had a paying job, you're not eligible for Social Security benefits. That's one of the reasons why, for example, long-term housewives will often get a job after their children leave home, so they can become eligible for benefits.

Pack93z
Select Member

14 years ago

#14

Of course you're right, Shawn -- that should be an ongoing process. The problem is how do you go about doing it? Set up some kind of supervisory board?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

I happen to agree with quite a number of things you say.. but you take everything to the other end of the spectrum every time it is impossible to completely agree.

Completely eliminating the program would basically terminate the lives of tens of thousands of truly needy citizens.

This country produces too much ungodly wealth not to be able to care for those truly in need..

Do I agree in a complete overhaul of the system and whom should be provided for.. absolutely.. we have some of the smartest people on the plant encompassed in this country.. I am sure a collective group of them could figure out how to determine whom should or shouldn't qualify.

Instead of focusing on the business of other nations, I think it is seriously time to focus on corrective actions to rebuild this country.

That includes SSI, Medicare, and other social services to strengthen this country.. instead of spending 9 billion to fight a war that clearly has no clear cut path of victory.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

DakotaT
Select Member

14 years ago

#15

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

Or someone who just crossed the border illegally and is somehow getting food stamps, medical assitance, housing, and is working for the righteous contractor (sarcasm alert) for under the table wages.

But you're right, if you are working and the employer is correctly withholding, then you are a contributor. I do recognize those citizens are incabable of any kind of employment and we do need to pick up the tab so we can call ourselves a civiliation.

But here's something for you in these troubled economic times. Could a wealthy person not dependent on the government for anything forego any payments or medicare in exchange for being exempt from paying any furthur income taxes?

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#16

I doubt we could exempt him from income taxes, simply because we have a progressive system in which the top 10 percent of earners pay 73 percent of income taxes, but it would certainly be intriguing to exempt him from FICA and SICA.

If you gave me the choice of being exempt from FICA and SICA in exchange for permanently forgoing all future benefits, I'd sign that agreement today.

DakotaT
Select Member

14 years ago

#17

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

Of course you would, you're a young man, not an old bastard like me. I've been paying in to that mother for over 25 years. I'm counting on you to take care of me. Maybe I should be nicer to you guys. ::wink:

Wade
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#18

Sigh. WHen in doubt, confiscate more wealth from the "rich."

The notion that you can solve a country's problems -- which are about demography, mis-investment of capital into non-productive activities (i.e. writing 100,000 pages of new rules every year), and mistaking the shuffling of paper for production -- by transferring money from one pocket to another is, I'm sorry, bad math and bad economics.

Even if it were true that everyone with income over 200,000/year were as useless as Paris Hilton/your average Congressman, confiscating all of their wealth wouldn't solve the problems. It might make us feel good for awhile.

And then, ten years later, the loud you noise will be the next generation cursing us for saddling them with even more debt that they can't pay off.

The only way to solve the financial problems, social security or otherwise, is to increase the productive ability of the economy more and faster.

Frankly, I'd open the boarders to ten gazillion Hispanics even though some of them will turn out to be welfare turds. Just like lots of Germans and French and British and Dutch and Hungarians and every other group of immigrants turned out to be turds.

Because the majority of them are going to increase the country's productive capacity. And that, rather than finding another Peter so we can pay Paul, is what this country needs to dig out. Finding new ways to produce wealth. Not finding new ways to re-distribute it.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

Cheesey
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#19

I do agree.....they ARE more educated.
Thus the reason why they are against what they are against. They understand what's at stake.

I heard on the radio where there is some liberal (can't remember the name right now) who is telling his liberal followers to infiltrate the tea party group, and make asses of themselves so people think it's the tea party people doing it.
Now.....if the tea party people are so bad, why would you have to put out FAKE garbage to try to make them look bad? Wouldn't it just BE there for you to record??? They have to do it, because even THEY know the bad stuff they want to show isn't there, unless they make it up.
Pretty telling if you ask me.

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#20

The Republicans do the same thing in states where you don't have to register for primaries, like Wisconsin. They will flood the primaries to vote for the Democratic candidate whom they perceive to be the weakest, thereby improving their chances in the general election.

Infiltration is an ancient, time-honored tactic. All's fair in love and war.

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