Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Instead of taking benefits from those that really need it via the form of a true disability.. why not go through the system and kick off those that are abusing the system.. ones that can do other physical activities.. yet can't seem to work.

We have a gent in my town that hunts and fishes every single day.. draws SSI because he is too disabled to work.. and it pisses me off every time I see that asshole. Claims he has some disease that effects him and he cannot hold down a job. Yet he can hunt or fish freely..

I would be very open to culling the system of those that could work but abuse the system so they don't have to.

"pack93z" wrote:



I agree.

However, even if you get rid of all the cheats and abusers overnight (unlikely since its harder than people think to identify them in a lot of cases), that isn't going to come close to solving the problem.

The problem is that the system is actuarially unsound and has been for decades. You'd need financial acumen that is systematically on the order of 500% better than Warren Buffett in picking a portfolio.

When you have a system as big as social security/medicare/medicaid, you're going to get cheats, frauds, and leeches. Unfortunately, with social security/medicare/medicaid, you have also had accounting that makes Enron look like the highest standards of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
15 years ago
Aren't we missing one aspect of this conversation, and that being benefits going out to people that have never paid one cent in. I'm sorry but the big piggy bank should only be accessible to those that threw in some coin.

I think that is a huge issue for the tea baggers that is not talked about in the article. I agree with 93 in that too many people are sucking off the system could actually be doing something. If you were a laborer of some kind and get injured, shouldn't the government provide for you only until you are retrained to do some kind of desk work.

Reform in the current system is definitely overdo and a necessity going forward. The problem is that this world has gotten to politically correct and we are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that we have forgot common sense.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Wouldn't the only people who were sucking out without having paid in be people who've never been employed in the first place? Unlike our progressive income tax, FICA and SICA (Social Security and Medicare taxes) are regressive in that everyone, regardless of income level, pays them. They are deducted by the employer before the employee even receives the paycheck. Therefore, if someone has ever had a job, they've paid into the system. Even clergy pay FICA and SICA, though they're exempt from income taxes. And technically, if you've never had a paying job, you're not eligible for Social Security benefits. That's one of the reasons why, for example, long-term housewives will often get a job after their children leave home, so they can become eligible for benefits.
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Pack93z
15 years ago

Of course you're right, Shawn -- that should be an ongoing process. The problem is how do you go about doing it? Set up some kind of supervisory board?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I happen to agree with quite a number of things you say.. but you take everything to the other end of the spectrum every time it is impossible to completely agree.

Completely eliminating the program would basically terminate the lives of tens of thousands of truly needy citizens.

This country produces too much ungodly wealth not to be able to care for those truly in need..

Do I agree in a complete overhaul of the system and whom should be provided for.. absolutely.. we have some of the smartest people on the plant encompassed in this country.. I am sure a collective group of them could figure out how to determine whom should or shouldn't qualify.

Instead of focusing on the business of other nations, I think it is seriously time to focus on corrective actions to rebuild this country.

That includes SSI, Medicare, and other social services to strengthen this country.. instead of spending 9 billion to fight a war that clearly has no clear cut path of victory.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
DakotaT
15 years ago

Wouldn't the only people who were sucking out without having paid in be people who've never been employed in the first place? Unlike our progressive income tax, FICA and SICA (Social Security and Medicare taxes) are regressive in that everyone, regardless of income level, pays them. They are deducted by the employer before the employee even receives the paycheck. Therefore, if someone has ever had a job, they've paid into the system. Even clergy pay FICA and SICA, though they're exempt from income taxes. And technically, if you've never had a paying job, you're not eligible for Social Security benefits. That's one of the reasons why, for example, long-term housewives will often get a job after their children leave home, so they can become eligible for benefits.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Or someone who just crossed the border illegally and is somehow getting food stamps, medical assitance, housing, and is working for the righteous contractor (sarcasm alert) for under the table wages.

But you're right, if you are working and the employer is correctly withholding, then you are a contributor. I do recognize those citizens are incabable of any kind of employment and we do need to pick up the tab so we can call ourselves a civiliation.

But here's something for you in these troubled economic times. Could a wealthy person not dependent on the government for anything forego any payments or medicare in exchange for being exempt from paying any furthur income taxes?
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I doubt we could exempt him from income taxes, simply because we have a progressive system in which the top 10 percent of earners pay 73 percent of income taxes, but it would certainly be intriguing to exempt him from FICA and SICA.

If you gave me the choice of being exempt from FICA and SICA in exchange for permanently forgoing all future benefits, I'd sign that agreement today.
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DakotaT
15 years ago

I doubt we could exempt him from income taxes, simply because we have a progressive system in which the top 10 percent of earners pay 73 percent of income taxes, but it would certainly be intriguing to exempt him from FICA and SICA.

If you gave me the choice of being exempt from FICA and SICA in exchange for permanently forgoing all future benefits, I'd sign that agreement today.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Of course you would, you're a young man, not an old bastard like me. I've been paying in to that mother for over 25 years. I'm counting on you to take care of me. Maybe I should be nicer to you guys. ::wink:
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
Sigh. WHen in doubt, confiscate more wealth from the "rich."

The notion that you can solve a country's problems -- which are about demography, mis-investment of capital into non-productive activities (i.e. writing 100,000 pages of new rules every year), and mistaking the shuffling of paper for production -- by transferring money from one pocket to another is, I'm sorry, bad math and bad economics.

Even if it were true that everyone with income over 200,000/year were as useless as Paris Hilton/your average Congressman, confiscating all of their wealth wouldn't solve the problems. It might make us feel good for awhile.

And then, ten years later, the loud you noise will be the next generation cursing us for saddling them with even more debt that they can't pay off.

The only way to solve the financial problems, social security or otherwise, is to increase the productive ability of the economy more and faster.

Frankly, I'd open the boarders to ten gazillion Hispanics even though some of them will turn out to be welfare turds. Just like lots of Germans and French and British and Dutch and Hungarians and every other group of immigrants turned out to be turds.

Because the majority of them are going to increase the country's productive capacity. And that, rather than finding another Peter so we can pay Paul, is what this country needs to dig out. Finding new ways to produce wealth. Not finding new ways to re-distribute it.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
15 years ago
I do agree.....they ARE more educated.
Thus the reason why they are against what they are against. They understand what's at stake.

I heard on the radio where there is some liberal (can't remember the name right now) who is telling his liberal followers to infiltrate the tea party group, and make asses of themselves so people think it's the tea party people doing it.
Now.....if the tea party people are so bad, why would you have to put out FAKE garbage to try to make them look bad? Wouldn't it just BE there for you to record??? They have to do it, because even THEY know the bad stuff they want to show isn't there, unless they make it up.
Pretty telling if you ask me.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
The Republicans do the same thing in states where you don't have to register for primaries, like Wisconsin. They will flood the primaries to vote for the Democratic candidate whom they perceive to be the weakest, thereby improving their chances in the general election.

Infiltration is an ancient, time-honored tactic. All's fair in love and war.
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Fan Shout
wpr (15h) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
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dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
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Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
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Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
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