Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

Instead of taking benefits from those that really need it via the form of a true disability.. why not go through the system and kick off those that are abusing the system.. ones that can do other physical activities.. yet can't seem to work.

We have a gent in my town that hunts and fishes every single day.. draws SSI because he is too disabled to work.. and it pisses me off every time I see that asshole. Claims he has some disease that effects him and he cannot hold down a job. Yet he can hunt or fish freely..

I would be very open to culling the system of those that could work but abuse the system so they don't have to.

"pack93z" wrote:



I agree.

However, even if you get rid of all the cheats and abusers overnight (unlikely since its harder than people think to identify them in a lot of cases), that isn't going to come close to solving the problem.

The problem is that the system is actuarially unsound and has been for decades. You'd need financial acumen that is systematically on the order of 500% better than Warren Buffett in picking a portfolio.

When you have a system as big as social security/medicare/medicaid, you're going to get cheats, frauds, and leeches. Unfortunately, with social security/medicare/medicaid, you have also had accounting that makes Enron look like the highest standards of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
14 years ago
Aren't we missing one aspect of this conversation, and that being benefits going out to people that have never paid one cent in. I'm sorry but the big piggy bank should only be accessible to those that threw in some coin.

I think that is a huge issue for the tea baggers that is not talked about in the article. I agree with 93 in that too many people are sucking off the system could actually be doing something. If you were a laborer of some kind and get injured, shouldn't the government provide for you only until you are retrained to do some kind of desk work.

Reform in the current system is definitely overdo and a necessity going forward. The problem is that this world has gotten to politically correct and we are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that we have forgot common sense.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Wouldn't the only people who were sucking out without having paid in be people who've never been employed in the first place? Unlike our progressive income tax, FICA and SICA (Social Security and Medicare taxes) are regressive in that everyone, regardless of income level, pays them. They are deducted by the employer before the employee even receives the paycheck. Therefore, if someone has ever had a job, they've paid into the system. Even clergy pay FICA and SICA, though they're exempt from income taxes. And technically, if you've never had a paying job, you're not eligible for Social Security benefits. That's one of the reasons why, for example, long-term housewives will often get a job after their children leave home, so they can become eligible for benefits.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago

Of course you're right, Shawn -- that should be an ongoing process. The problem is how do you go about doing it? Set up some kind of supervisory board?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I happen to agree with quite a number of things you say.. but you take everything to the other end of the spectrum every time it is impossible to completely agree.

Completely eliminating the program would basically terminate the lives of tens of thousands of truly needy citizens.

This country produces too much ungodly wealth not to be able to care for those truly in need..

Do I agree in a complete overhaul of the system and whom should be provided for.. absolutely.. we have some of the smartest people on the plant encompassed in this country.. I am sure a collective group of them could figure out how to determine whom should or shouldn't qualify.

Instead of focusing on the business of other nations, I think it is seriously time to focus on corrective actions to rebuild this country.

That includes SSI, Medicare, and other social services to strengthen this country.. instead of spending 9 billion to fight a war that clearly has no clear cut path of victory.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
DakotaT
14 years ago

Wouldn't the only people who were sucking out without having paid in be people who've never been employed in the first place? Unlike our progressive income tax, FICA and SICA (Social Security and Medicare taxes) are regressive in that everyone, regardless of income level, pays them. They are deducted by the employer before the employee even receives the paycheck. Therefore, if someone has ever had a job, they've paid into the system. Even clergy pay FICA and SICA, though they're exempt from income taxes. And technically, if you've never had a paying job, you're not eligible for Social Security benefits. That's one of the reasons why, for example, long-term housewives will often get a job after their children leave home, so they can become eligible for benefits.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Or someone who just crossed the border illegally and is somehow getting food stamps, medical assitance, housing, and is working for the righteous contractor (sarcasm alert) for under the table wages.

But you're right, if you are working and the employer is correctly withholding, then you are a contributor. I do recognize those citizens are incabable of any kind of employment and we do need to pick up the tab so we can call ourselves a civiliation.

But here's something for you in these troubled economic times. Could a wealthy person not dependent on the government for anything forego any payments or medicare in exchange for being exempt from paying any furthur income taxes?
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I doubt we could exempt him from income taxes, simply because we have a progressive system in which the top 10 percent of earners pay 73 percent of income taxes, but it would certainly be intriguing to exempt him from FICA and SICA.

If you gave me the choice of being exempt from FICA and SICA in exchange for permanently forgoing all future benefits, I'd sign that agreement today.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
14 years ago

I doubt we could exempt him from income taxes, simply because we have a progressive system in which the top 10 percent of earners pay 73 percent of income taxes, but it would certainly be intriguing to exempt him from FICA and SICA.

If you gave me the choice of being exempt from FICA and SICA in exchange for permanently forgoing all future benefits, I'd sign that agreement today.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Of course you would, you're a young man, not an old bastard like me. I've been paying in to that mother for over 25 years. I'm counting on you to take care of me. Maybe I should be nicer to you guys. ::wink:
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Sigh. WHen in doubt, confiscate more wealth from the "rich."

The notion that you can solve a country's problems -- which are about demography, mis-investment of capital into non-productive activities (i.e. writing 100,000 pages of new rules every year), and mistaking the shuffling of paper for production -- by transferring money from one pocket to another is, I'm sorry, bad math and bad economics.

Even if it were true that everyone with income over 200,000/year were as useless as Paris Hilton/your average Congressman, confiscating all of their wealth wouldn't solve the problems. It might make us feel good for awhile.

And then, ten years later, the loud you noise will be the next generation cursing us for saddling them with even more debt that they can't pay off.

The only way to solve the financial problems, social security or otherwise, is to increase the productive ability of the economy more and faster.

Frankly, I'd open the boarders to ten gazillion Hispanics even though some of them will turn out to be welfare turds. Just like lots of Germans and French and British and Dutch and Hungarians and every other group of immigrants turned out to be turds.

Because the majority of them are going to increase the country's productive capacity. And that, rather than finding another Peter so we can pay Paul, is what this country needs to dig out. Finding new ways to produce wealth. Not finding new ways to re-distribute it.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
14 years ago
I do agree.....they ARE more educated.
Thus the reason why they are against what they are against. They understand what's at stake.

I heard on the radio where there is some liberal (can't remember the name right now) who is telling his liberal followers to infiltrate the tea party group, and make asses of themselves so people think it's the tea party people doing it.
Now.....if the tea party people are so bad, why would you have to put out FAKE garbage to try to make them look bad? Wouldn't it just BE there for you to record??? They have to do it, because even THEY know the bad stuff they want to show isn't there, unless they make it up.
Pretty telling if you ask me.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
The Republicans do the same thing in states where you don't have to register for primaries, like Wisconsin. They will flood the primaries to vote for the Democratic candidate whom they perceive to be the weakest, thereby improving their chances in the general election.

Infiltration is an ancient, time-honored tactic. All's fair in love and war.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
3h / Around The NFL / beast

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

15-Feb / Around The NFL / beast

15-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

14-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / TheKanataThrilla

14-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

13-Feb / Random Babble / Mucky Tundra

10-Feb / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

10-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

9-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

9-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / dhazer

7-Feb / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

4-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.