Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

Instead of taking benefits from those that really need it via the form of a true disability.. why not go through the system and kick off those that are abusing the system.. ones that can do other physical activities.. yet can't seem to work.

We have a gent in my town that hunts and fishes every single day.. draws SSI because he is too disabled to work.. and it pisses me off every time I see that asshole. Claims he has some disease that effects him and he cannot hold down a job. Yet he can hunt or fish freely..

I would be very open to culling the system of those that could work but abuse the system so they don't have to.

"pack93z" wrote:



I agree.

However, even if you get rid of all the cheats and abusers overnight (unlikely since its harder than people think to identify them in a lot of cases), that isn't going to come close to solving the problem.

The problem is that the system is actuarially unsound and has been for decades. You'd need financial acumen that is systematically on the order of 500% better than Warren Buffett in picking a portfolio.

When you have a system as big as social security/medicare/medicaid, you're going to get cheats, frauds, and leeches. Unfortunately, with social security/medicare/medicaid, you have also had accounting that makes Enron look like the highest standards of Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
14 years ago
Aren't we missing one aspect of this conversation, and that being benefits going out to people that have never paid one cent in. I'm sorry but the big piggy bank should only be accessible to those that threw in some coin.

I think that is a huge issue for the tea baggers that is not talked about in the article. I agree with 93 in that too many people are sucking off the system could actually be doing something. If you were a laborer of some kind and get injured, shouldn't the government provide for you only until you are retrained to do some kind of desk work.

Reform in the current system is definitely overdo and a necessity going forward. The problem is that this world has gotten to politically correct and we are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that we have forgot common sense.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Wouldn't the only people who were sucking out without having paid in be people who've never been employed in the first place? Unlike our progressive income tax, FICA and SICA (Social Security and Medicare taxes) are regressive in that everyone, regardless of income level, pays them. They are deducted by the employer before the employee even receives the paycheck. Therefore, if someone has ever had a job, they've paid into the system. Even clergy pay FICA and SICA, though they're exempt from income taxes. And technically, if you've never had a paying job, you're not eligible for Social Security benefits. That's one of the reasons why, for example, long-term housewives will often get a job after their children leave home, so they can become eligible for benefits.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago

Of course you're right, Shawn -- that should be an ongoing process. The problem is how do you go about doing it? Set up some kind of supervisory board?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I happen to agree with quite a number of things you say.. but you take everything to the other end of the spectrum every time it is impossible to completely agree.

Completely eliminating the program would basically terminate the lives of tens of thousands of truly needy citizens.

This country produces too much ungodly wealth not to be able to care for those truly in need..

Do I agree in a complete overhaul of the system and whom should be provided for.. absolutely.. we have some of the smartest people on the plant encompassed in this country.. I am sure a collective group of them could figure out how to determine whom should or shouldn't qualify.

Instead of focusing on the business of other nations, I think it is seriously time to focus on corrective actions to rebuild this country.

That includes SSI, Medicare, and other social services to strengthen this country.. instead of spending 9 billion to fight a war that clearly has no clear cut path of victory.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
DakotaT
14 years ago

Wouldn't the only people who were sucking out without having paid in be people who've never been employed in the first place? Unlike our progressive income tax, FICA and SICA (Social Security and Medicare taxes) are regressive in that everyone, regardless of income level, pays them. They are deducted by the employer before the employee even receives the paycheck. Therefore, if someone has ever had a job, they've paid into the system. Even clergy pay FICA and SICA, though they're exempt from income taxes. And technically, if you've never had a paying job, you're not eligible for Social Security benefits. That's one of the reasons why, for example, long-term housewives will often get a job after their children leave home, so they can become eligible for benefits.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Or someone who just crossed the border illegally and is somehow getting food stamps, medical assitance, housing, and is working for the righteous contractor (sarcasm alert) for under the table wages.

But you're right, if you are working and the employer is correctly withholding, then you are a contributor. I do recognize those citizens are incabable of any kind of employment and we do need to pick up the tab so we can call ourselves a civiliation.

But here's something for you in these troubled economic times. Could a wealthy person not dependent on the government for anything forego any payments or medicare in exchange for being exempt from paying any furthur income taxes?
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I doubt we could exempt him from income taxes, simply because we have a progressive system in which the top 10 percent of earners pay 73 percent of income taxes, but it would certainly be intriguing to exempt him from FICA and SICA.

If you gave me the choice of being exempt from FICA and SICA in exchange for permanently forgoing all future benefits, I'd sign that agreement today.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
14 years ago

I doubt we could exempt him from income taxes, simply because we have a progressive system in which the top 10 percent of earners pay 73 percent of income taxes, but it would certainly be intriguing to exempt him from FICA and SICA.

If you gave me the choice of being exempt from FICA and SICA in exchange for permanently forgoing all future benefits, I'd sign that agreement today.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Of course you would, you're a young man, not an old bastard like me. I've been paying in to that mother for over 25 years. I'm counting on you to take care of me. Maybe I should be nicer to you guys. ::wink:
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Sigh. WHen in doubt, confiscate more wealth from the "rich."

The notion that you can solve a country's problems -- which are about demography, mis-investment of capital into non-productive activities (i.e. writing 100,000 pages of new rules every year), and mistaking the shuffling of paper for production -- by transferring money from one pocket to another is, I'm sorry, bad math and bad economics.

Even if it were true that everyone with income over 200,000/year were as useless as Paris Hilton/your average Congressman, confiscating all of their wealth wouldn't solve the problems. It might make us feel good for awhile.

And then, ten years later, the loud you noise will be the next generation cursing us for saddling them with even more debt that they can't pay off.

The only way to solve the financial problems, social security or otherwise, is to increase the productive ability of the economy more and faster.

Frankly, I'd open the boarders to ten gazillion Hispanics even though some of them will turn out to be welfare turds. Just like lots of Germans and French and British and Dutch and Hungarians and every other group of immigrants turned out to be turds.

Because the majority of them are going to increase the country's productive capacity. And that, rather than finding another Peter so we can pay Paul, is what this country needs to dig out. Finding new ways to produce wealth. Not finding new ways to re-distribute it.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
14 years ago
I do agree.....they ARE more educated.
Thus the reason why they are against what they are against. They understand what's at stake.

I heard on the radio where there is some liberal (can't remember the name right now) who is telling his liberal followers to infiltrate the tea party group, and make asses of themselves so people think it's the tea party people doing it.
Now.....if the tea party people are so bad, why would you have to put out FAKE garbage to try to make them look bad? Wouldn't it just BE there for you to record??? They have to do it, because even THEY know the bad stuff they want to show isn't there, unless they make it up.
Pretty telling if you ask me.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
The Republicans do the same thing in states where you don't have to register for primaries, like Wisconsin. They will flood the primaries to vote for the Democratic candidate whom they perceive to be the weakest, thereby improving their chances in the general election.

Infiltration is an ancient, time-honored tactic. All's fair in love and war.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (2h) : Sources: Packers QB Jordan Love expected back vs. Vikings
Zero2Cool (2h) : The NFL fined #Packers RB Josh Jacobs a whopping $45,020 for unnecessary roughness/use of helmet last week
Zero2Cool (27-Sep) : Packers Final Injury Report: Jordan Love questionable vs. Vikings
Zero2Cool (27-Sep) : We are hosed. Not practicing Friday: CB Jaire Alexander, CB Carrington Valentine, G/T Jordan Morgan.
Zero2Cool (26-Sep) : rude
Mucky Tundra (26-Sep) : RIP Frank Ragnow
Mucky Tundra (26-Sep) : @E_Woodyard #Lions HC Dan Campbell says they're gonna put Frank Ragnow down this week. "We've got to be smart," Campbell said.
bboystyle (25-Sep) : Favre using the pitty card during that hearing for his criminal acts
Zero2Cool (24-Sep) : Former Packers QB Brett Favre recently announced he was diagnosed with Parkinson's.
Zero2Cool (24-Sep) : The only QBs this season with 0 turnover-worthy plays according to PFF (minimum 30 dropbacks) Aaron Rodgers Malik Willis Justin Fields
Mucky Tundra (23-Sep) : @DavidBearmanPFN · 18h Vegas has watched Will Levis for 3 weeks and installed them as a 1-point favorite in Miami next week. Let that sink
Mucky Tundra (23-Sep) : Martha, they did play much better with Dalton yesterday
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : Test results on Sam Darnold’s knee showed a knee bruise and no structural damage. He is not expected to miss any time.
Martha Careful (23-Sep) : Not with Dalton apparently
Mucky Tundra (23-Sep) : Not sure what to make of the NFC South so far this season (outside of the Panthers being a dumpster fire)
Mucky Tundra (22-Sep) : of course I say that and then they overturn that play that put them on the 49ers 2 yard line
Mucky Tundra (22-Sep) : *without
Mucky Tundra (22-Sep) : Even with Nacua and Kupp out, Rams looking fiesty on offense
Martha Careful (22-Sep) : Tim Boyle is playing for the Dolphins
Martha Careful (22-Sep) : I love seeing Dallas lose
Mucky Tundra (22-Sep) : The Red Rifle is on fire in Las Vegas! 3 TDs in the first half!
Mucky Tundra (22-Sep) : @mattschneidman · 2m The fire alarm is going off inside the Packers locker room here in Nashville.
Mucky Tundra (22-Sep) : Gonna need a drink after looking at my picks for the early games in Pick'em
Zero2Cool (22-Sep) : James Jones. Y’all must not know, Dr. Mackenzie🤣 he was not going to let Jordan love play today.
Zero2Cool (22-Sep) : Malik to start. Love inactive. Per report. Let's go!!
buckeyepackfan (22-Sep) : I think J-10VE will be inactive, a little twist that could be put in is run a wildcat with Wicks at qb. Have him as emergency qb if needed.
Zero2Cool (21-Sep) : I think that's how it works.
Zero2Cool (21-Sep) : I'd go 3 QB regardless this game.
Zero2Cool (21-Sep) : Clifford was elevated, not activated. He doesn't play, it doesn't count.
hardrocker950 (21-Sep) : If Clifford is active, not likely to see Jordan play this weekend
Mucky Tundra (21-Sep) : QB Sean Clifford and CB Robert Rochell elevated from the PS for the Titans game
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : Love questionable. Morgan is out. Valentine is doubtful
Martha Careful (20-Sep) : Rodgers and Lazard off to a very strong start
Zero2Cool (19-Sep) : Josh Jacobs. Limited.
Zero2Cool (19-Sep) : Can't find anything on Jacobs :(
wpr (19-Sep) : Do you know if they gave Jacobs an extra day off? I hope so.
Zero2Cool (19-Sep) : WR Jayden Reed (calf) and G Elgton Jenkins (illness/glute) returned after sitting out Wednesday.
Zero2Cool (19-Sep) : Packers are in pads and so is Jordan Love. Second straight day of practice for QB1.
bboystyle (18-Sep) : If Love comes back, we win in a blow out
Zero2Cool (18-Sep) : Jordan Love just spoke with reporters and said he’s giving himself the week but hopeful to play Sunday against the Titans.
Zero2Cool (18-Sep) : Practicing is Jordan Love!
Zero2Cool (18-Sep) : Packers are signing WR Cornelius Johnson to the Practice Squad per sources. Johnson was a 7th round pick this year.
Zero2Cool (17-Sep) : Packers placed RB MarShawn Lloyd on injured reserve.
Zero2Cool (16-Sep) : Rams won’t have Cooper Kupp or Puka Nacua when they host the Packers in Week 5.
Mucky Tundra (16-Sep) : Or is that the Rusty Red Rifle because of his age?
Mucky Tundra (16-Sep) : The Red Rifle Returns!
Zero2Cool (16-Sep) : Panthers are benching former No. 1 overall pick Bryce Young and starting veteran Andy Dalton beginning this week.
Mucky Tundra (16-Sep) : bears still have slim chance here
Mucky Tundra (16-Sep) : and there's another one!
Mucky Tundra (16-Sep) : oh crap macbob has the Texans K and he keeps hitting these long FGs
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

14h / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

27-Sep / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

27-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

27-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

27-Sep / Random Babble / wpr

26-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

25-Sep / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

25-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

25-Sep / GameDay Threads / wpr

24-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Sep / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Sep / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.