Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
I just don't get it.

Okay, Sitton is a stud. Great. I agree.

Okay, Lang has shown serious potential. Great. I agree.

(But, as an aside: He's still mostly in the "potential" category. He's not yet in the "proven starter" category.)

Okay, Wells is okay. If every starter were at Wells level the line would be servicable. Not great. Not particularly good. But servicable.

(Aside here: serviceable IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH IF YOU WANT A SERIOUS CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER, GD IT!)

Spitz is NOT solid. Okay. He's shown more consistency than Daryn Colledge. Big fuckin whoop.

And backups? Okay, Evan The Hyphenated has "potential". I've heard nothing but the goddamn potential argument since Ted Thompson became GM. And apart from Sitton, who was pretty much a stud from the get go save for his injury, and maybe Lang (who should be given more time), all that potential of WHitticker and Coston and Spitz and Colledge and Barbre and Moll and Breno the Unspellable has yielded what. Mediocrity shading toward servicable.

Okay, our biggest questions are at tackle. Fine. I agree. But if Thompson and McCarthy are content with the interior line after Sitton, and maybe wells, they don't have high enough standards.

They shouldn't be content with ANYONE after Sitton, Lang, and Wells. They shouldn't be content with ANYONE after Sitton as a starter right now. And they shouldn't be content with ANYONE after Sitton, Lang, and Wells for a roster spot.

They may have to settle for some of the current roster. But they sure as hell should not be content.

Foster, you're still being too polite. 🙂
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
Oh, yes, and regarding Rock's listing of all the draft attention to OL Thompson has given...

I don't dispute that Thompson has given serious attention to the position (allowing for the first year mulligan).

But in one sense that makes it worse. If we could say, as we did (and Thompson himself did) after that first year, it was just a question of him spending more attention, foster and I could be shut up by a really active Ted Thompson this year. But frankly, his track record of "action" has been mediocre when it comes to the OL. One homerun (Sitton) is not good enough.

One of the reasons I am so strident about "OL OL OL" is that Ted's batting average on the OL looks worse than a journeyman shortstop from the 1970s. If the Packer OL is going to get where it needs to go, he needs extra at bats each year.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
dfosterf
15 years ago
Link 

Above link to jog the memory.

Colledge.

That had been the plan at LT. That has never, ever been a good plan, and anyone that thinks it was is being WAY too generous to our decision-makers, imo.
Pack93z
15 years ago
So is it Thompson's fault that Campen is still employed with the Packers in the position of Offensive Line coach?

Definitely not directly.. and I think honestly that is the weak link.. the development of line under the tutelage of these two.. Campen and Fonteno.. I honestly believe that is our real failing her on the line..

I know guys like Colledge can play at a high level for short bursts.. I have seen it.. it is up to the coaching staff to get that level of play out of them consistently.

I won't disagree that we are in need of some tackle prospects.. no doubt.. but unless we have a teacher that can draw the play out of them.. does it matter?

At the end of the day.. on the offensive line I hold the coaches more accountable than Ted in this regard.. he has gotten them NFL type bodies to mold and they have failed to do so. Period.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
warhawk
15 years ago
Just because Ted Thompson is a believer in growth from within does not mean he doesn't recognize where the team needs help. Last year he was making similar statements about the personnel on defense and having the players that could adapt to the 3-4.

He said Pickett could handle nose, Poppinga would work at ROLB, Kampman would make the switch, the CB's could handle a different concept, etc., etc., and so on.

What did he do? Opted for Raji, moved down for Mathews, and took Jones and Underwood. He went straight after 3-4 players. Now had this switch not been made I pretty much doubt Raji would have been the pick there and the OT position would have been addressed right then and there.

Now he has the opportunity, with a deep draft, to look at these areas where there is need and continue to build on the personnel for the 3-4 as well.

I think some here may be understating what this team accomplished by going 11-5 in the first year of switching over defenses. It's not that easy. If it were and all the other teams would be assured of the same kind of success they would ALL do it. I know we were certainly more successful than other teams that just made the same move and that happened in no small measure because Ted Thompson saw what was needed and went out and got it.

His alternative on offense was to let four or five guys fight for the RT position and IMO it could have been much less of a catastrophe out there had the coaches recognized Lang or Meredith were going to be better than what they decided to go with and ultimately letting Meredith go was not on Ted Thompson but what he was told the depth chart looked like at the time by the coaches.

I think Barbre fooled everybody. They were all high on his athletic ability(including Rodgers) but when it came to game time the guy couldn't block anybody and they stuck with him way to long. I put that on the coaches.
"The train is leaving the station."
dfosterf
15 years ago

So is it Thompson's fault that Campen is still employed with the Packers in the position of Offensive Line coach?

Definitely not directly.. and I think honestly that is the weak link.. the development of line under the tutelage of these two.. Campen and Fonteno.. I honestly believe that is our real failing her on the line..

I know guys like Colledge can play at a high level for short bursts.. I have seen it.. it is up to the coaching staff to get that level of play out of them consistently.

I won't disagree that we are in need of some tackle prospects.. no doubt.. but unless we have a teacher that can draw the play out of them.. does it matter?

At the end of the day.. on the offensive line I hold the coaches more accountable than Ted in this regard.. he has gotten them NFL type bodies to mold and they have failed to do so. Period.

"pack93z" wrote:



It all depends on the (unknown) relationship in that FO. Since Ted doesn't have an owner breathing down his neck, my suspicion is that he has a bit of a "luxury" in the sense that he can lean towards a more collaborative relationship with Mike and the asst. coaches. In a weird way, my feeling is more along the lines of Ted as a partner, contrasted with a boss.

Those short bursts of competence are EXACTLY why Colledge was such a shitty plan. We kept waiting for a level of consistency that never materialized, yet they stuck with that plan far too long. Now he is going to (probably) lose his job as a LG, and deservedly so. I still remain bothered by the whole interrelationship between the ZBS scheme and the drafting of "ideal for a ZBS scheme" lineman. Ted calls the name at the draft, and while there is a bit of "coaxing the board" motivation on my part regarding this thread, Ted is still the boss, and now we have the real potential for a serious setback going into this next year.

It sure does look alot like there is a serious weak link in the coaching, so my question is-why is it that the Packers continue down this path? Are they treating the coaches the same way they treated Colledge?

Are they hoping that Campen gets better at his job? If THAT is the plan...That plan sucks worse than the Colledge plan.

I have been ranting about this friggin' line for 3 years or more. I was sick of the subject then, and I'm damn sure sick and tired of it now.

Fix the GD offensive line SITUATION...blame or don't blame who you want.

There is some loyalty shit going on there with Mike and these o line coaches that I don't like. Unfortunately, he is "safe" enough (Mike) in this off-season, as evidenced by all that jump to the defense of all parties involved, to help perpetuate this miserable shit for what could easily turn into a dive off a cliff.

If we lose Cliffy (who has to hold and jump to keep from getting beat as it is) and Tausch....

It is gonna get so very ugly. A real possibility.
Stevetarded
15 years ago

This is kind of fun. Dhazer has been on to something, conversation-wise. :thumbleft:

"Rockmolder" wrote:



We need more Dhazer. He's been absent way too much as of late. He's supposed to make these threads.

"dfosterf" wrote:



Perhaps he has finally decided to "Get on board and keep his mouth shut"
blank
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
1. Correct me if I am wrong. Is not Campen a subordinate of Thompson's?That McCarthy is between the two in the organizational chart doesn't change who is above whom? If it's the players, Thompson is responsible. If it's the coaches, Thompson is still responsible.

2. I fully concede that Thompson has done a lot right, warhawk. My issue with Thompson is, and always has been, his performance re: OL. And because OL is critically important IMO, his failures there are -- if 2010 doesn't change things -- worthy of termination. I'll concede Rodgers and Raji and Matthews and Collins and WOodson and Pickett etc etc. And if the OL is no better than servicable, all those successes will be successes on a second-tier team.
I just do not believe you can "take that next step" beyond "perpetual bridesmaid" unless you strive for domination across both lines. Being content with "servicable" is not going to make it.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago
A question for foster and the other old farts who remember the 3 decades of mediocrity between Super Bowls II and XXXI:

What kinds of OL did the team have in those years?

It's an honest question. I don't know the answers myself. All my attention in those days was focused on the inability to get a quarterback and/or RB and/or the right coach. I remember Gillingham (stud), Hallstrom (a holding penalty per game), McCarren (became great announcer), Mandarich (bust), but not much more.

I do remember Lynn Dickey (the best QB between Starr and Favre) getting hit a lot a couple years.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
15 years ago
Most Points, Season

    * 461, 2009 (16 games)
    * 456, 1996 (16 games)
    * 442, 2003 (16 games)
    * 435, 2007 (16 games)
    * 429, 1983 (16 games) 

The Packers offense scored more points in '09 than they have ever scored in any season before, and people still think the OL was a giant steaming pile of shit. In the last three years, they have had two of the top 4 highest scoring seasons in Packers history under Thompson and this same basic OL, while lead by two different QBs and a decent RB. If that leads you to believe that there is a horrible, inexcusable personnel problem in the offensive line, the very CORE of the offense, well...

:lurk:
Fan Shout
dfosterf (18-Aug) : We do have good depth at running back imo. Still so frustrating. Bitching about it is a futile excercise, which I plan to do anyway.
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Whoops, I thought Zero was saying it was a surprise the Brewers lost and not Lloyd being hurt
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Not a surprise; inevitable
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : Brewers streak ends at 14
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : SURPRISE
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on MarShawn Lloyd: “He’s gonna miss some time.”
Mucky Tundra (16-Aug) : CLIFFORD WITH THE TD WITH UNDER 2 TO GO!!!!!
Zero2Cool (16-Aug) : 90 MINUTES UNTIL FAKE KICKOFF!!
Martha Careful (16-Aug) : I think Ruven is a bot, but regardless should be stricken from the site.
Zero2Cool (14-Aug) : Packers RB Josh Jacobs ranked No. 33 in NFL 'Top 100'
dfosterf (13-Aug) : The LVN Musgrave collision- Andy Herman said Musgrave seemed to be the one most impacted injury-wise
dfosterf (13-Aug) : a lower back injury
dfosterf (13-Aug) : Doubs says he's "fine" after injury scare. Some reported it as z
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : With LVN that is; need to see what happens in the next practice
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : beast, reading about what happened, it sounded like one of those "two guys collide and are moving slow afterwards" type of deals
beast (12-Aug) : I believe Musgrave has been injured every single season since at least a Sophomore in highschool
packerfanoutwest (12-Aug) : Matt LaFleur: “Highly unlikely” Jordan Love plays more this preseason
dfosterf (12-Aug) : Doubs, Savion Williams, LVN, Musgrave all banged up to one degree or another, missing one here I forget
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : RB Tyrion Davis-Price is signing with the Green Bay Packers.
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : zero help, dominated. preseason
beast (12-Aug) : QB Jordan Love has surgery
beast (12-Aug) : Martha said Morgan had a lot of help, I didn't watch the OL so I can't say.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers LT Jordan Morgan did not allow a single pressure across 23 pass-blocking snaps vs. Jets last night, per PFF
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (10-Aug) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (10-Aug) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (10-Aug) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Mucky Tundra (9-Aug) : THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE PLAYING FOOTBALL TONIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!!
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Woo-hoo
TheKanataThrilla (9-Aug) : NFL Network is broadcasting the game tonight, but not in Canada. Not sure why as no local television is showing the game.
beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.
beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before
beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season
beast (8-Aug) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.
beast (8-Aug) : I think the NFL recently changed the IR rules, so maybe the season might not be over for OL Glover.
Zero2Cool (8-Aug) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

21-Aug / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

21-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

19-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Aug / Around The NFL / isaiah

18-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

16-Aug / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / beast

15-Aug / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

13-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

12-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

12-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.