I am literally crushed muh man, Dakota goes with TLDR to my posts. I kept this one short for you, homie.

I don't need to read the same explanation 10 times. I get it the first time around. You'll have to excuse my friends, they're a little slow.

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It's called knowing the body of work of the poster. You actually take the time to read the novels written by Uffda, Barfarn, or Wade? You have that kind of time on your hands?

Every once in a while, I'll humor myself and read one of Wade's novels and if dissatisfied, I let him have it. Otherwise, that's skimming material.

I love it when Barfarn gives a good solid analysis, even if it goes long. That shit's packed full of information.

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At the end of the day this is a great place to come and be with Packer fans. There is no place I would rather be on game-day (except Lambeau). Is it perfect? No and that is why it is real. It will never be perfect because we all bring our own baggage to the table with us. Mine is writing proper English and adding "u" where they are suppose to go, and not going ape-shit when I see defence or Offense like the site's spell-check. Sometimes people cross the line, but I hope as a true family we try and keep peace rather than cast people away. I enjoy learning from other people and I learn more about the game and my team every time I come to visit. I don't think we need more rules, just an understanding that we treat others with respect even if we disagree with them. I recognize some really good fans walked away from this site. That sucks. Whether it was in the football page or the Babble section I am not clear of the reason. Personally I never understood walking away, but to each their own. I wish they would come back and just talk football and ignore the people that pissed them off. Different opinions add value to the site and we all learn from looking at thing differently. Just because somebody pisses you off doesn't mean they are not adding value to your life.

edit: Hahaha this site actually auto-corrects offence.

edit2: not sure how it got spelled correctly the second time and not the first.

That's true, Kantilla. Sometimes things people say here actually makes me change my mind. Other times, it makes me more sure that what I thought was correct.
Either way, it gives you the opportunity to question your self and make you actually THINK!

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As a guy who feels like an outsider, I can tell you one of the worst things about any forum is the cliques that are well formed turning off any and all new posters. This is one of the reasons 68md likes the word "troll". That word protects the clique from the opinions of outsiders and creates a herd mentality and feeding frenzy against the new unwanted visitor. Now, this only applies to new members who have a dissenting point of view. If the new poster is perfectly in line, and often they become that way because they lurk for awhile to see what is acceptable and what isn't. What you get left with is a forum like 68md's...it's a cult of sameness. I was there and unwelcome because I had 180 views from their clique membership. Of course, I just had to be a troll because I didn't like Davante Adams, wasn't high on TT, etc. and they didn't want to hear it. I was a troll and beat a dead horse but had I said positive things about Davante, TT, etc...there would've been no dead horse beat. That only comes up when the opinion is unpopular. When something unpopular is posted ONCE is enough for the clique board who doesn't appreciate such expressions. Any further expression of your "negative" opinion is beating a dead horse. I have seen this ridiculousness played out on any fan board everywhere I've ever been.

People should always feel free to express themselves on a forum, but, alas, this is "someone's" forum that they built and that real person behind it has leanings and ideas that sometimes make it hard for a new person to feel welcome. I've always hated that about ANY type of forum. This one does the best job of allowing free expression but it goes through periods where the rank and file are reporting posts like crazy and then the site creator feels compelled to act because his long and trusted clique of members isn't liking what is being posted to them. That clique only wants those who are like minded and ultimately the person who brings a different perspective is banished and the board celebrates as if it's rid itself of some evil when the real evil is the idea that everyone should see things the same. Makes for a really, really, really bad and uninteresting board. A feel good buddy club...like sitting at Cheers talking to Woody or Sam. There's only so many barstools to go around and there ain't one reserved for a dissenter.

Honestly, that is why I think there should be a subforum for members who aren't the typical fan type. To me, it just makes good sense. It isn't saying one group is better than another rather it's acknowledging the truth that doesn't want to be acknowledged...that there is a strong bent for ONE type of fan and opinion here. That's great. It's not great when that is kept in the shadows and there's all this pretense that we're all the same ...we're all just fans nobody better than another. Absolutely. Nobody is better...BUT...there are groups who are DIFFERENT and those different type posters aren't truly welcome. Never have been, never will be...they are tolerated and never accepted until some moment where the tolerance wears thin and they are banished. This really needs to be acknowledged and admitted...that, in fact, this board does desire one type of opinion and that is of the Packers flattering variety. Now, Kevin I don't direct that at you, perse, but your membership overwhelmingly desires that and it puts you in a tough spot. I get it but let's be honest about what is wanted here. Guys like me gone.

If there was a forum for guys like Dakota and myself that is the only place I would post. I wouldn't even bother the Buckeyes of the world that swoon with every single thing this org does and praise it and spin it positively.

Kevin...heck, shoot me a PM. Let me know how much it would cost me to have you host a site for me. A place like Michael Rodney's PackersNotes would be good for me. I can just write pieces on my site and can leave commentary open below. That way, I'm and hopefully others like me are off your board where nobody really wants me/them anyway and the issue of harmony and feeling like a family comes back.

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I've already told you you can do that here. No charge.

As I've said several times. Your takes are good, even if I disagree with them.

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I will take 2 rolls of Quarters and one each of Dimes, Nickels and Pennies.

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This is something that EVERYONE needs to work on, and I hope people take it to heart.

We all love the Packers. Like any other issue in the universe though, when you get a large group of people together, there's going to be a wide range of personalities, opinions, and as a result, issues. Everyone needs to do their part to make this COMMUNITY work.

This doesn't mean changing your opinion to match more popular ones
This doesn't mean saying only, or even primarily positive things about individual players, coaches, management, etc
This doesn't mean not confronting people in a constructive manner when you think they are incorrect and you are correct.

This DOES mean making a sincere attempt to take a step back and look at how you dish out criticism of members of the team/management, posters and their opinions. Debate is great, this website would be boring and largely pointless if we all agreed on everything and everyone got along great. But in order to have CONSTRUCTIVE debate, people need to be constructive when debating and arguing.

Keep personal attacks in any form out of things. Keep debate about the issues. If a particular poster annoys you to the point that he or she is impacting your ability to enjoy the site, and you're not able to ignore them, block them so you don't need to see their posts. You are not doing anybody any favors by fighting poor behavior with more poor behavior. You're not being adult-like, mature, clever, or noble by whining about individual posters in a public space. If they're breaking rules, report them. If they're just being dicks, ignore them. If you can't ignore them, block them.

Try to keep in mind that every poster on this website strongly believes that their opinion is correct. Just as you should be able to express your disagreement with other people's opinions, you should be able to acknowledge to yourself that your opinion may not be gospel. Keep an open mind, and give people the benefit of the doubt.


In my opinion, there's no ideal way to moderate a website. No matter what you do, people will have conflicts, people will get frustrated and leave. Mankind has been struggling with keeping peace in communities since the beginning, and it will be a struggle until the end of time. But we can all do our part to make this community work by trying to be more civil, EVEN IF OTHER PEOPLE ARE NOT.

Kevin is there a way to see your very first post on here? I am curious to see what mine was lol. Probably something like Ted Thompson sucks and so does Mike McCarthy and why the hell aren't we drafting a wr.



Nevermind this only goes back to 2010 and imagine that Imy first comment was on nonstops boobs thread lol

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Kevin is there a way to see your very first post on here? I am curious to see what mine was lol. Probably something like Ted Thompson sucks and so does Mike McCarthy and why the hell aren't we drafting a wr.

Nevermind this only goes back to 2010 and imagine that Imy first comment was on nonstops boobs thread lol

Check it out . I would like to add that Aaron Rodgers won MVP twice AND also won Super Bowl MVP. You sure look silly now after all this brilliant hindsight wisdom!!

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As a guy who feels like an outsider, I can tell you one of the worst things about any forum is the cliques that are well formed turning off any and all new posters. This is one of the reasons 68md likes the word "troll". That word protects the clique from the opinions of outsiders and creates a herd mentality and feeding frenzy against the new unwanted visitor. Now, this only applies to new members who have a dissenting point of view. If the new poster is perfectly in line, and often they become that way because they lurk for awhile to see what is acceptable and what isn't. What you get left with is a forum like 68md's...it's a cult of sameness. I was there and unwelcome because I had 180 views from their clique membership. Of course, I just had to be a troll because I didn't like Davante Adams, wasn't high on TT, etc. and they didn't want to hear it. I was a troll and beat a dead horse but had I said positive things about Davante, TT, etc...there would've been no dead horse beat. That only comes up when the opinion is unpopular. When something unpopular is posted ONCE is enough for the clique board who doesn't appreciate such expressions. Any further expression of your "negative" opinion is beating a dead horse. I have seen this ridiculousness played out on any fan board everywhere I've ever been.

People should always feel free to express themselves on a forum, but, alas, this is "someone's" forum that they built and that real person behind it has leanings and ideas that sometimes make it hard for a new person to feel welcome. I've always hated that about ANY type of forum. This one does the best job of allowing free expression but it goes through periods where the rank and file are reporting posts like crazy and then the site creator feels compelled to act because his long and trusted clique of members isn't liking what is being posted to them. That clique only wants those who are like minded and ultimately the person who brings a different perspective is banished and the board celebrates as if it's rid itself of some evil when the real evil is the idea that everyone should see things the same. Makes for a really, really, really bad and uninteresting board. A feel good buddy club...like sitting at Cheers talking to Woody or Sam. There's only so many barstools to go around and there ain't one reserved for a dissenter.

Honestly, that is why I think there should be a subforum for members who aren't the typical fan type. To me, it just makes good sense. It isn't saying one group is better than another rather it's acknowledging the truth that doesn't want to be acknowledged...that there is a strong bent for ONE type of fan and opinion here. That's great. It's not great when that is kept in the shadows and there's all this pretense that we're all the same ...we're all just fans nobody better than another. Absolutely. Nobody is better...BUT...there are groups who are DIFFERENT and those different type posters aren't truly welcome. Never have been, never will be...they are tolerated and never accepted until some moment where the tolerance wears thin and they are banished. This really needs to be acknowledged and admitted...that, in fact, this board does desire one type of opinion and that is of the Packers flattering variety. Now, Kevin I don't direct that at you, perse, but your membership overwhelmingly desires that and it puts you in a tough spot. I get it but let's be honest about what is wanted here. Guys like me gone.

If there was a forum for guys like Dakota and myself that is the only place I would post. I wouldn't even bother the Buckeyes of the world that swoon with every single thing this org does and praise it and spin it positively.

Kevin...heck, shoot me a PM. Let me know how much it would cost me to have you host a site for me. A place like Michael Rodney's PackersNotes would be good for me. I can just write pieces on my site and can leave commentary open below. That way, I'm and hopefully others like me are off your board where nobody really wants me/them anyway and the issue of harmony and feeling like a family comes back.

Preface sorry Kevin but he took the gloves off..you stood around and let him take a pot shot so be it.

You sir MR Uffda... Counter ... Packtion! and a host of other screen names you've posted under all over. First off you need to refresh your memory. You were in great standing on "my site" until you pitched your little hissy fit and got a one week vaca. Than instead of manning up you took your ball and went home. You got your hinder tossed out of news.net and it's uncensored and unmoderated sister(To name just a few) forum for and I am quoting the owner directly " He was a real word twister. Sports radio background and therefore loved to be provocative and take outrageous stands and burn topics 15 pages deep. Tended to play the victim when you tried to reign him in. "

That's you big boy... it's ALWAYS someone else never your damn fault. My site is what it is ... but that crap your trying to sell above is nothing more then you pouting because you think I called you out when in fact I was generalizing. It's not always about you Uffda ... your opinion is just that yours and your entitled to it but geez you don't ALWAYS have to have the last word.

And by the way I take great pride in my site and it's corner bar feel.. If you don't like it fine but IMHO it takes a real prick to take the cheap shot you did.


I keep making the mistake that PH is the site it was years ago when I could log in jump into a conversation.. say hi to a few old friends ( none of them post here anymore) and it was fun.

Now ..well shit look above. Apologize to all the old regulars for the OT rant.

Preface sorry Kevin but he took the gloves off..you stood around and let him take a pot shot so be it.

You sir MR Uffda... Counter ... Packtion! and a host of other screen names you've posted under all over. First off you need to refresh your memory. You were in great standing on "my site" until you pitched your little hissy fit and got a one week vaca. Than instead of manning up you took your ball and went home. You got your hinder tossed out of news.net and it's uncensored and unmoderated sister(To name just a few) forum for and I am quoting the owner directly " He was a real word twister. Sports radio background and therefore loved to be provocative and take outrageous stands and burn topics 15 pages deep. Tended to play the victim when you tried to reign him in. "

That's you big boy... it's ALWAYS someone else never your damn fault. My site is what it is ... but that crap your trying to sell above is nothing more then you pouting because you think I called you out when in fact I was generalizing. It's not always about you Uffda ... your opinion is just that yours and your entitled to it but geez you don't ALWAYS have to have the last word.

And by the way I take great pride in my site and it's corner bar feel.. If you don't like it fine but IMHO it takes a real prick to take the cheap shot you did.


I keep making the mistake that PH is the site it was years ago when I could log in jump into a conversation.. say hi to a few old friends ( none of them post here anymore) and it was fun.

Now ..well shit look above. Apologize to all the old regulars for the OT rant.

What's your site, 68md, if I may ask?

I'm one person who "hyena'd" Ufda, and it's mainly because of his repetitive argumentation and the way he twists around people who try to reason with him. I don't feel I'm part of a clique that plots against him. In fact, it's mainly because of Dakota that I haven't done it again, although frankly I don't think he's been as bad.

I don't think Ufda trolls on purpose, I just think that's how he is as a person. 🤣

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Preface sorry Kevin but he took the gloves off..you stood around and let him take a pot shot so be it.

You sir MR Uffda... Counter ... Packtion! and a host of other screen names you've posted under all over. First off you need to refresh your memory. You were in great standing on "my site" until you pitched your little hissy fit and got a one week vaca. Than instead of manning up you took your ball and went home. You got your hinder tossed out of news.net and it's uncensored and unmoderated sister(To name just a few) forum for and I am quoting the owner directly " He was a real word twister. Sports radio background and therefore loved to be provocative and take outrageous stands and burn topics 15 pages deep. Tended to play the victim when you tried to reign him in. "

That's you big boy... it's ALWAYS someone else never your damn fault. My site is what it is ... but that crap your trying to sell above is nothing more then you pouting because you think I called you out when in fact I was generalizing. It's not always about you Uffda ... your opinion is just that yours and your entitled to it but geez you don't ALWAYS have to have the last word.

And by the way I take great pride in my site and it's corner bar feel.. If you don't like it fine but IMHO it takes a real prick to take the cheap shot you did.


I keep making the mistake that PH is the site it was years ago when I could log in jump into a conversation.. say hi to a few old friends ( none of them post here anymore) and it was fun.

Now ..well shit look above. Apologize to all the old regulars for the OT rant.

Potshot? 68, with all due respect, it was you who passive aggressively named me in your "troll" comment earlier in this thread. What I said about your site I stand firmly behind with no regrets. That is what happened. You want to go revisionist. It was my own doing I got booted. Yup...because I wouldn't go all sugar same which is what you desired. It was fine for your membership to blast my opinions but if I chose to respond I was beating a dead horse. That's laughable. Me man up? Seriously. I could point to our PM's on this very site to that issue. You went bananas over what I typed about Richard Rodgers and was hell bent on proving to me I was wrong, or have you forgotten? You couldn't stand that I ripped RR's pedestrian speed. Why? It happens to be true. That isn't an opinion but what I state is counter to what your perception of truth is and that upsets you.

Kevin, fortunately, has allowed me to post my honest views here. Many other sites don't want what I'm selling. It's "anti Packers flattering" so it's unwelcome about everywhere. I don't troll as you falsely and self protectingly allege. I already detailed for you why how your board operates is incorrect so lest I be accused of beating that dead horse, although I feel compelled, because you're blustering against the truth I'll just leave it here.

We both know why I don't post on your board and if you want to put that on me that's fine but it's not the truth.

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Not to worry, Troy. I'm not up to posting many novels anymore.

Not because of the site's change, evolution or whatever people call it. I miss this or that poster, but I like the place a lot still. It's still a valuable community for me, more valuable to the one where I work. It's still a destination site.

I just don't have much to say any more. Why? Dunno. Too many brain cells have died as a result of a llfetime of bad habits, early Alzheimer's, bad teeth, who knows?🤷

Plus of course most PH people, new or old, already know of my opinions on the need for OL improvement, domination v. finesse, religion, education, and the whack job species called Politicianus Americanus.

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Potshot? 68, with all due respect, it was you who passive aggressively named me in your "troll" comment earlier in this thread. What I said about your site I stand firmly behind with no regrets. That is what happened. You want to go revisionist. It was my own doing I got booted. Yup...because I wouldn't go all sugar same which is what you desired. It was fine for your membership to blast my opinions but if I chose to respond I was beating a dead horse. That's laughable. Me man up? Seriously. I could point to our PM's on this very site to that issue. You went bananas over what I typed about Richard Rodgers and was hell bent on proving to me I was wrong, or have you forgotten? You couldn't stand that I ripped RR's pedestrian speed. Why? It happens to be true. That isn't an opinion but what I state is counter to what your perception of truth is and that upsets you.

Kevin, fortunately, has allowed me to post my honest views here. Many other sites don't want what I'm selling. It's "anti Packers flattering" so it's unwelcome about everywhere. I don't troll as you falsely and self protectingly allege. I already detailed for you why how your board operates is incorrect so lest I be accused of beating that dead horse, although I feel compelled, because you're blustering against the truth I'll just leave it here.

We both know why I don't post on your board and if you want to put that on me that's fine but it's not the truth.

So RR's dad is a coach on the Panthers, from what I hear. He told one of our beat reporters, (McGinn?) at the SB that RR was playing at 270lbs this year.

Dad says he's gonna slim down and improve his speed for next year.

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I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with my opinions. What DOES bother me is when they name call. This usually happens when they push over and over their opinions, and can't get me to say how they are right and I'm stupid.
A lot of the time they don't give any real reason why they think they are so right, they just feel they are superior somehow to me.
I don't think I'm any better then anyone else.
I do however have my beliefs, which I came by through by years and years of thought and personal experience .
I used to allow myself to be bullied.
You can't allow a bully to control you.

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About 8-10 years ago I was going on a number of different Packers site. About 8 yeas ago I came across PH. For about the last 7 years this is the only site I go to, other than to get info off the official Packer's site. Off the Packer site you only get info they want you to have, fine for that. I get much more here. Obviously, I believe this is a great site.

There are a number of reasons I come here almost exclusively but most important is the people. Almost all are good people and knowledgeable and passionate Packer fans. Sometime this passion, and sometimes their personality gets overbearing. So I try to understand or ignore that when it happens. Name calling or getting personal has no place on a good forum. My perception is that, that is ignorance trying to express itself at best.

There are quite a few really good posts on this thread which I applauded. If Kevin as ideas to make this site better-great. If we take comments made on the thread to heart it will get better. My only idea is to discuss the way you would with family and friends face to face. That should help-hopefully.

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I've only skimmed a good portion of posts (my time is limited and I will read each thoroughly), but I wanted to say those who feel the site is great. THANK YOU. You haven't any idea how much this means to me and how encouraging it is. I admit that a few who constantly label the entire fan base visiting PH have worn on me. I never wanted to be that person who needs "reassurance" he was doing something positive, but I guess it is just nice to see others appreciate the effort that's put into a creation and passion of mine.

Keep the opinions, both good and bad coming. What you like, what you don't like and things in between. Even if said already, it's good to have it said again, regardless of it being positive or negative.

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I've only skimmed a good portion of posts (my time is limited and I will read each thoroughly), but I wanted to say those who feel the site is great. THANK YOU. You haven't any idea how much this means to me and how encouraging it is. I admit that a few who constantly label the entire fan base visiting PH have worn on me. I never wanted to be that person who needs "reassurance" he was doing something positive, but I guess it is just nice to see others appreciate the effort that's put into a creation and passion of mine.

Keep the opinions, both good and bad coming. What you like, what you don't like and things in between. Even if said already, it's good to have it said again, regardless of it being positive or negative.

Well, when guys like dhazer, Dakota and myself hail the site itself as fantastic you truly must be doing something right because are there really any other posters as "negative" as us 3?

Positive and negatives alike can enjoy this site...we won't really get along all that well but we can all be united in this is the best Packers site out there. I should know...I've been banned from most of them! 😁

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Not to worry, Troy. I'm not up to posting many novels anymore.

Not because of the site's change, evolution or whatever people call it. I miss this or that poster, but I like the place a lot still. It's still a valuable community for me, more valuable to the one where I work. It's still a destination site.

I just don't have much to say any more. Why? Dunno. Too many brain cells have died as a result of a llfetime of bad habits, early Alzheimer's, bad teeth, who knows?🤷

Plus of course most PH people, new or old, already know of my opinions on the need for OL improvement, domination v. finesse, religion, education, and the whack job species called Politicianus Americanus.

I think you've dumped all your knowledge out already. 😂 I"m just getting started. 😉

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Making changes... always difficult.

I have had countless conversations with Zero over the years on this site and many times life in general. Some in public, some not. Through it all, I can say one thing with certainty; his heart is always in the right place in terms of making this a friendly place to kick back and talk Packers, joke a bit and also wax about life in general. There is a blend of patience, dedication and just plain work piled into it; but at the end of the day, we the posters of the site really control the quality of the discussions here.

During the peak of my involvement here... it had a different feel than it has had over say the last 18 months or so. Probably a little longer than that, but there was also some slipping prior. And none of that has anything to do with the site itself.. the features, the structure.

It slipped because like society as a whole, we collectively started to respect one another less and less.. instead of reading a counter post for what it is, we all read in more to it than was meant. Slowly we started to allow rift raft to join whose pure mission was to argue and more importantly target posters in place of topics. Cycled over and over... getting a bit more personal post after post.

Got to the point where even we couldn't come to a consensus of how to handle the "problem" poster. Long term members left... then a few more... some much more patience than I stayed and continued on with the discussions.

Yeah, I realize I am rambling... so I shall get to the point. Kevin can try to drive home as much change as he can... but unless the core members that drive much of the content can't respect each other to allow another to post their opinions freely, those effort to change will fall short.

Talk to the topic, refrain from turning the discussion towards a poster and understand the passion each of us have for different topics. Discuss, disagree, post and counter, but if nothing else find a bit of respect for one another. Have a bit of fun.. laugh and joke... this should be a break from the trials of life.. not another layer.

That can shit can those whose only mission is to stir the pot... pretty easy to spot them, that should be the main focus of the moderators, removing the trolls.

Oh... and Kevin, trust those that are willing to help, they wouldn't offer if they didn't care and understand that it will not always be a sweet reward at the end.

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