digsthepack
14 years ago
Well, going back into history from the first moment man picked up a stick or a rock...there has been conflict and war. The WHOLE WORLD, as we know it, was built on the back of conquest of other peoples and lands. Nobody is spared in this history.

And please....spare me the "peaceful native" discussion. The Native American tribes had warred mercillessly amongst each other long before the white man hit these shores....and came up with some REALLY creative ways to torture and kill one another. Europeans were simply more efficient at the ugly task.
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Formo
14 years ago


Are they really in our closet?

I'm pretty sure they've all been aired out.

"DakotaT" wrote:



I live about 40 miles from Sitting Bull's decendents and I think that's a topic that needs to re-aired out. Buffalo checks and infinity welfare doesn't make up for what they gave up or had taken from them.

"Formo" wrote:



I hear you about the Native American thing.. I don't think it needs to be re-aired out though.

Question.. I can't decipher your last paragraph.. Are you siding that they need more from the government, or less?

"DakotaT" wrote:




Well let's see, they were almost eliminated from the face of the earth, made to live on the shitiest lands in America, their spiritual grounds in the Black Hills stolen because someone found gold. Basically there whold meaning of life taken from them. Where would you begin in reparations?

I don't think you get to say my bad how can fix things for you? Their hatred of the white man is eternal.

"Formo" wrote:



I don't know about that tribe..

But I do know about the tribes that live here in MN. One tribe, in fact, gets an uncalled for amount of money per tribe member as they age. And each family gets a $1million home. Too bad, because they are given them, they don't appreciate them. And let them rot. I know, because one of my close friends was a landscaper that worked down on the reservation. It's pretty sad.

You are correct, though. There is not reparation for what has been done. Time to move on, IMO.

There's this anamally that's called survival of the fittest. They should be grateful that we didn't just wipe them off the face of the planet. I know it's sad what was done to the Native Americans, and I feel for the crap that they had to endure.. But it's been how long now? Get over it, and move on.
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zombieslayer
14 years ago
For the record, it wasn't our guns that conquered the Native Americans, it was a thing called smallpox. Europeans died much less frequently and were often carriers who didn't even notice they had it.

Much of life is luck, dumb luck. If you study the battles between the white man and the red man, you'd notice that the actual battles were very close, with both sides winning. But with smallpox killing 90% of a community, kind of made it easy to be conquered.
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Wade
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14 years ago

For the record, it wasn't our guns that conquered the Native Americans, it was a thing called smallpox. Europeans died much less frequently and were often carriers who didn't even notice they had it.

Much of life is luck, dumb luck. If you study the battles between the white man and the red man, you'd notice that the actual battles were very close, with both sides winning. But with smallpox killing 90% of a community, kind of made it easy to be conquered.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



+1

Sigh. If I hadn't gone to grad school in history, I never would have known this.
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dfosterf
14 years ago

For the record, it wasn't our guns that conquered the Native Americans, it was a thing called smallpox. Europeans died much less frequently and were often carriers who didn't even notice they had it.

Much of life is luck, dumb luck. If you study the battles between the white man and the red man, you'd notice that the actual battles were very close, with both sides winning. But with smallpox killing 90% of a community, kind of made it easy to be conquered.

"Wade" wrote:



+1

Sigh. If I hadn't gone to grad school in history, I never would have known this.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Damn good thing you went before they changed the textbooks.
DakotaT
14 years ago
The gattlin gun didn't do any damage?

I guess it's convenient to say don't bring a knife to a gun fight. And when everything comes clean in the wash, everyone is suppose to say, oh well, let's get on with it.

Conquered people have their futures dictated to them. But did the conqueror's have the right in the first place?

People bitch about the illegals crossing the border, or are they people coming back to the lands that were once theirs. Tough call all the way around.
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DakotaT
14 years ago
Sorry, double post.
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wpr
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14 years ago
link 

 Nation   Active Personnel   	Reserve Force   	Paramilitary   	Total   	Active troops/1000 Citizens
France       	259,050		419,000  		101,400 	779,450 	4.27 	
Germany 	210,500		302,500 		45,050 		558,000 	3.45 		
Italy 	        240,000 	68,000 			238,800 	546,800 	3.42 	
U Kingdom 	206,480		233,880 		0 		440,360 	3.41 	
Spain        	177,950		328,500 		72,600 		579,050 	3.49 	
Greece 		177,600		291,000 		4,000 		472,600 	16.60 	
Poland 		125,000		234,000 		21,300 		418,300 	4.23 	
Romania 	90,000 		104,000 		79,900 		281,100 	4.31 	
Czech Rep 	57,050 		0 			5,600 		62,650 		5.57 	
Netherlands 	53,130 		32,200 			3,300 		88,630 		3.24 	
Bulgaria 	39,000 		303,000 		34,000 		385,450 	5.1 	 	
Belgium 	45,800 		100,500 		0 		146,300 	3.94 	
Portugal 	44,900 		210,930 		25,600 		281,430 	4.25 	
Finland 	36,700 		485,000 		3,100 		524,800 	5.17 	
Austria 	34,600 		72,000 			N/A 		106,600 	4.23 	
Sweden 		33,900 		262,000 		35,000 		295,900 	3.07 	
Hungary 	33,400 		90,300 			12,000 		135,700 	3.31 	
Slovakia 	26,200 		20,000 			4,700 		50,900 		4.05 	
Denmark 	22,880 		64,900 			61,500 		149,280 	4.24 	
Lithuania 	13,510 		309,200 		14,390 		33,100 		3.53 		
Ireland 	10,500 		14,000 			0 		24,500 		5.78 	
Cyprus 		10,000 		60,000 			750 		70,750 		12.80 	
Slovenia 	9,000 		20,000 			4,500 		33,500 		1.21 	
Estonia 	5,700 		220,000 		20,000 		245,700 	4.13 
Latvia 		5,500 		14,050 			3,200 		22,750 		2.13 	
Malta 		2,140 		0 			0 		2,140 		5.37 	
Luxembourg 	900 		0 			612 		1,512 		1.92 	

    * Approximate Figures
    * Source of active duty information: Center for Strategic and International Studies 2006 and Jaffa Center of Strategic Studies


Summary of major troop contributions (over 300, July 23, 2009):[5]
British troops on patrol in Helmand Province.
Soldiers from the Canadian Grenadier Guards in Kandahar Province in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_ (2001%E2%80%93present)

ISAF total' 101,000 '[219]
United States - 68,000
United Kingdom - 10,000
Germany - 4,245
France - 3,070
Canada - 2,830
Italy - 2,795
Netherlands - 2,160
Poland - 2,035
Australia - 1,550
Spain - 1,000
Romania - 990
Turkey - 820
Denmark - 750
Norway - 600
Belgium - 510
Sweden - 500
Bulgaria - 460
Czech Republic - 340
Croatia - 325
Hungary - 310
New Zealand - 300



Rock, I do not expect European nations to supply the same number of troops as the U.S. but they could certainly do much better than what they have done.
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wpr
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14 years ago

For the record, it wasn't our guns that conquered the Native Americans, it was a thing called smallpox. Europeans died much less frequently and were often carriers who didn't even notice they had it.

Much of life is luck, dumb luck. If you study the battles between the white man and the red man, you'd notice that the actual battles were very close, with both sides winning. But with smallpox killing 90% of a community, kind of made it easy to be conquered.

"dfosterf" wrote:



+1

Sigh. If I hadn't gone to grad school in history, I never would have known this.

"Wade" wrote:



Damn good thing you went before they changed the textbooks.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I knew this from watching movies. It has been in a few of them.
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Rockmolder
14 years ago
2160 / 16500000 * 100 = 0,013% of the population.
68000 / 308100000 * 100 = 0,022% of the population.

I know, that's still quite a difference, but for a war where we're the allies, and you're the invaders, I think that contribution is quite big.

The French and Spain, for instance, are barely doing anything, while having quite a force.

But from an European standpoint, why should we contribute a huge amount of troops whenever you declare a war? We've actually been trying to get our troops away from there for ages, but out of diplomatic reasons, we keep prolonging this mission.

I think that, when you really get attacked, the whole world will get to your aid. Much like when you first invaded Afghanistan. Difference is, you have kept on sending troops to stabilize the region. We're trying to get out of there, or at least just keep it to the regions we invaded. There's something to be said about both, I guess.
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