Mucky Tundra
a month ago
Earlier today when talking about the Saints and their salary cap, our resident board owner asked:

Zero2Cool (10h) : What does NFL do if they're over cap?



NFL Top-51 Rule: What happens if an NFL team goes over the salary cap? 

What are the punishments for breaching the NFL's salary cap?
The NFL's salary cap is established in the Collective Bargaining Agreement set between the league and NFLPA.

If a team goes over the salary cap, they are fined upwards of five million dollars for each violation of the cap. In more severe scenarios, draft picks can be confiscated entirely and player contracts can be voided.

Teams over the cap are also banned from signing any new players until they are back below the cap again.

This is why there is so much talk about salary caps in the NFL, because it really isn't worth it for a team to go over that limit



So what about the Saints? Well... 

This trade would clear a prorated portion of $1.21 million and the Saints would carry $13.4 million in dead money in 2024. Where this gets tricky for New Orleans is looking ahead to 2025. The team is currently projected to be $71,408,567 over the effective salary cap next year, per Over The Cap. If they trade Lattimore, they would lock in $31.66 million in dead money for 2025 because this is a post-June 1 trade. That means the dead money is split between the rest of this season and next season. (Dead money is cash already paid to a player that hasn’t been accounted for on the salary cap.)

The Saints already need to clear more than $71 million, and dead money is not something that can be cleared out once a player has been moved. If they trade Lattimore, they’re just further leveraging themselves against future years’ caps. They would in turn need to find more people to trade, cut, or otherwise renegotiate contracts to clear more cap space.

The Saints have long been part of a running joke about the salary cap not being entirely real given how much they have kicked the can on it. Theoretically they can keep kicking it, but we’re seeing the result of this strategy: they’re a mediocre to bad team that cannot afford to upgrade their roster because they’re too busy paying for the mediocrity that currently exists.

At some point, the Saints will have to hit the reset button and take the pain of rebuilding everything. It’s just a matter of when they’re willing to do it, and who gets to take the lumps during what will be some very lean years.



A cursory look at the Saints salary cap  at Over the Cap shows them at $61 million in the hole for next year (not sure about the discrepancy with the previous $71 million figure the Lattimore article states, esp since they also cite Over the Cap). Over the cap by $61/$71 million with 49 contracts on the books is...not good. It gets worse when you look and see that 3 players have void years for 2025. So the Saints need so shed 10s of millions of cap to get under and will also need to get up to 53 players on their roster, most likely through the draft . As it currently stands, the Saints have a good shot at landing the top pick in draft. Even with the cap friendly rookie contracts, the Saints are in a bit of bind.

But hey at least they're in the black for 2026 with $23.5 million with 40 contracts on the books, right? Wellll....a closer examination shows 14 void year contracts, so in reality the Saints have a long way to go filling out their roster. And those numbers are subject to change as the current 2026 cap show has none of the 2025 or 2026 draft picks on the their books.

But surely 2027 is a good year! $209.6 million in cap space with only $104.3 in current cap hits with 28 contracts on the roster! WELLLLLLL.....17 of those contracts are void contracts. Similar to the previous year, the future draft classes aren't factored in and like the year previous, the Saints will have a long way to go in filling out their roster.

The big question is will the Saints let some of their talent (Olave, Ruiz etc) walk to get their cap healthy or will they use the cap expansion in 2027 to continue kicking the can?
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
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beast
a month ago
Simply put, teams are not allowed to be over the cap. If they are over the cap then expect punishment coming from the NFL as the other 31 teams are pissed that you cheated and the team most likely will lose cap space to the other 31 teams, they and their owner will be fined, and they'll lose draft picks.

In other words, Saints will get under the cap, BUT with the position they have put themselves how many star players will they have to get rid of to get under the cap?

I'm thinking their QB Carr and QB/TE Hill could be gone, maybe even more players.
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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
a month ago
I didn't see it when I tried to look up which teams have been over the cap in the past but I think SF maybe New England have been over the cap and fined in the past.
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beast
a month ago

I didn't see it when I tried to look up which teams have been over the cap in the past but I think SF maybe New England have been over the cap and fined in the past.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I don't believe it's ever officially happened, as it's not simple not allowed, and all 31 other teams will come after you.

Teams MUST be under the salary cap... and teams gives a lot of options to kick the can down the road and borrow money from the next couple of years.

The only time I can remember a team failing to meet salary cap was the 90s Super Bowl Broncos... but here is the catch, they technically showed that they were under the cap, they just had side deals with Elway and I think the RB that they did not properly report, but where not caught until like a decade later.


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Mucky Tundra
a month ago

In other words, Saints will get under the cap, BUT with the position they have put themselves how many star players will they have to get rid of to get under the cap?

I'm thinking their QB Carr and QB/TE Hill could be gone, maybe even more players.

Originally Posted by: beast 



With the Lattimore trade, the Saints dead cap hit is next year is $48 million but now have $52 million in free cap for 2026. Gonna have to punt a lot into 2026. 2027 might see a similar situation that GB had in 2023: over 50% of the cap tied up in void years and dead cap.

I wonder who the placeholder coach is going to be for the next three years.
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
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"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
buckeyepackfan
a month ago
The Broncos signed (John Lynch)? Late in The 1997 season, it was discovered after the season the signing had put them over the cap, by then it was too late to do anything except fine them. Lynch solidified their defensive backfield and helped them beat The Packers in the SB.
Probably was worth the fine, whatever it was.
That was 27 years ago, I think the story is accurate .
Only time I remember it happening.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
beast
a month ago

The Broncos signed (John Lynch)? Late in The 1997 season, it was discovered after the season the signing had put them over the cap, by then it was too late to do anything except fine them. Lynch solidified their defensive backfield and helped them beat The Packers in the SB.
Probably was worth the fine, whatever it was.
That was 27 years ago, I think the story is accurate .
Only time I remember it happening.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 


I believe they later found out that the Broncos deals with Elway and one other player (I want to say the star RB) also gave them some money that was off the books.

https://forums.denverbroncos.com/forum/broncos-football/talkin-smack/223817-denver-broncos-cheated-to-win-both-of-their-sbs 

In December 2001, the Broncos were fined $968,000 and lost a third-round pick in the 2002 draft for violations reportedly relating to $29 million in deferred payments to quarterback John Elway and running back Terrell Davis.

On Thursday, the league announced that the Broncos have been fined $950,000 and will lose a third-round selection in next year's draft for circumventing the salary cap between 1996 and '98


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Mucky Tundra
a month ago
Saints not planning for rebuild despite coaching change, high salary cap charges 

From the outside, it all seems to add up: a looming head-coaching vacancy, a non-traditional salary cap, and plenty of older, accomplished players. Are the Saints headed for a rebuild?

Yet, that's not the plan at all.

New Orleans isn't planning for an overhaul. There will be changes, and likely an effort to get younger. But they aren't envisioning taking their franchise down to the studs, just like they didn't plan a fire sale prior to this past Tuesday's trade deadline. With a roster they believe is far better than their record, one besieged by unrelenting injuries, the Saints believe in pushing forward, rather than stepping back.



I guess the can will be kicked even further.
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
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"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
beast
a month ago

I guess the can will be kicked even further.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 


That's all their GM does... and he's been GM since 2002 (not 2022, but 2002).

Seems like their GM is locked in for life, or until their ownership changes.

And I assume that's why Sean Peyton left.
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Mucky Tundra
a month ago

That's all their GM does... and he's been GM since 2002 (not 2022, but 2002).

Seems like their GM is locked in for life, or until their ownership changes.

And I assume that's why Sean Peyton left.

Originally Posted by: beast 



When I was looking into their GM before I started this thread and saw he had been there since 2002, I had to do a double take. 2002? As in, "2002 with Aaron Brooks, Deuce McAllister and Joe Horn"? I struggle to see them attracting anyone worthwhile to the job now.
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
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"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (3h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (3h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (5h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (5h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (6h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (6h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (6h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (6h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (6h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (6h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (7h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (7h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (7h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (7h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (7h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (8h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (8h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (8h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (8h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (9h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (9h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (9h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (9h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (9h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (10h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (11h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (11h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (12h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (12h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (12h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (12h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (12h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (12h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (12h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (12h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (12h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (12h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (12h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (12h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (12h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (12h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (12h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (12h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (12h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (12h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (12h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (12h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (12h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (13h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
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