Zero2Cool
2 months ago

Well in the end points are what decides if you win or lose so we could be the 31st ranked in yards given up and as long as we are top 5 in points against I will live with it. Just makes you wonder what the defense would be like if they were healthy. In the end I think all this playing time for these guys is going to be an advantage for us. But then again i would still love Leonard in play next year with his aggressive style defense.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 


I'm gonna say this up front. I'm over thinking this. HOWEVER! Maybe the defense got better because they had to become more creative and less reliant on the studs we're missing?

One of those backs against the wall kind of things.
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beast
2 months ago

I'm gonna say this up front. I'm over thinking this. HOWEVER! Maybe the defense got better because they had to become more creative and less reliant on the studs we're missing?

One of those backs against the wall kind of things.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


I certainly think that was part of it, especially during/after the 2022 season.

There was articles where the DL finally got Barry to listen for the last four games or so, which them asking for him to make it mentally simpler for them and just let them attack.

And also the end of the season meeting where according to CB Douglas, Barry asked them what they wanted and they said they wanted to be in the faces of WRs more (which everyone was claiming they were wanting, coaches, players, fans everyone, but players on the field weren't doing, and it has since come out that Alexander likes being off of the line, my guess is CB King is the same way, but this year, they're trying to get CBs to be more at the line).

And this year, instead of using the Safeties sort of interchangeable asking both Safeties to play both FS and SS which can add more confusion to the offenses, but asking more from the Safeties, they have gone toward a more clear FS (Ford) and SS (Savage) roles at the start of the season.

Also changed this year, is the DL (from last year, but with some more scheme changes) the DL has allowed to attack more and asked to protect the LBers behind them less. This helps the pass rush but possible hurts the run defense even more.

So Packers seriously need to keep upgrading the DL, because run defense is bad... which is partly due to scheme playing with lighter boxes but also not two gapping neither as much.

Scheme wise, the hardest job is DL stopping the run, so it would be nice getting some stud there. That being said, this draft might be lacking the Day 1 DL studs, but maybe there are some developmental ones.
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Zero2Cool
2 months ago
Thoughts?



UserPostedImage
2 months ago
I think it is an interesting observation. Said differently we are weak against the run...which we are.

If one were game planning against us, I would run the hell out of the ball work in play action. We have to be ready.
Go Packers!!!!
2 months ago
Ken Lass wrote:

The Lass Word: Frustrated LaFleur Remains Loyal to Barry
Game ending failures ratchet up pressure for change.

By KenLass

Dec 14, 2023

It was the day after his team suffered a damaging loss to the New York Giants. Matt LaFleur stood at the podium for his news conference. He was asked about the inability of his defense to stop the Giants on the game’s final drive. Specifically, he addressed the backbreaking 32 yard completion to Wan’Dale Robinson that put New York within range of a walk off, game-winning field goal.

“Joe called man coverage, and we’re playing way off, which we shouldn’t be in that situation. We called another man coverage, and that’s when we got beat” the head coach remarked, referring to defensive coordinator Joe Barry. The reporter then followed up with the more pertinent question. Did the corners play off coverage in error, or is that where the coaches wanted them to line up?

LaFleur paused for three or four seconds, knowing he had to choose his words carefully. Would he point the finger at his coordinator? Or would he blame the players? He chose to do neither. “Well, we’re going to have to get that corrected” he answered generically. “If we’re calling man, we’ve got to be tighter.” He ended the comment abruptly, anxious for the beat writers to change the subject, which they did.

It’s not the first time LaFleur has publicly made remarks which could be interpreted as a clear message to Barry. There have been other post game reactions from the head coach critical of the positioning of pass defenders in clutch situations. Surely LaFleur understands that, whether the defensive play call is poorly schemed, or the players are just lined up in the wrong place, the responsibility falls on Barry.

But while LaFleur seems willing to openly acknowledge the repeated problems on defense, he remains fiercely loyal to his defensive lieutenant. He gave Barry unequivocal support for a third year at the helm last off season, despite two years of what was widely regarded as under achievement on that side of the ball. And truthfully, the defense does have its good moments. Against the Giants there was an impressive stop on fourth down, and four tackles for loss. The unit has hovered around the top ten in the league in points allowed per game.

Yet what doesn’t seem to change is the defense’s inability to close out a game, to come up with a stop when the team needs it the most. Until Monday night, that weakness was somewhat muted during this campaign because of a handful of fortuitous breaks. In the week three game against New Orleans the Packers rallied to score a touchdown giving them an 18-17 lead with 2:27 left to play. However, the defense then allowed the Saints to drive 47 yards in eight plays, setting up a very makeable 46 yard field goal to win the game. Rookie kicker Blake Grupe missed the kick.

In week eleven Green Bay scored with 2:33 remaining to grab a 23-20 advantage over the Chargers. With thirty seconds to play, rookie receiver Quentin Johnston got behind cornerback Carrington Valentine deep and was wide open. Justin Herbert dropped a perfect pass over Johnston’s shoulder for what should have been an easy, game-winning touchdown. Johnston dropped the ball.

In week thirteen the defense was trying to protect a 27-19 lead over the Chiefs. With 19 seconds left Patrick Mahomes launched a deep pass over the middle to Marquez Valdes Scantling. Valentine climbed over MVS’s back in an effort to get to the ball in what was universally acknowledged by all observers as pass interference. All observers, that is, except the officials, who called nothing. The penalty would have set the Chiefs up with a first and goal in the closing seconds.

Had those three situations gone the other way, the spotlight on Green Bay’s late game defensive shortcomings might be much brighter. To be sure, the breaks don’t always go in favor of the Packers. They have had their share of bad or missing calls. The point is, Joe Barry’s defensive teams have had consistent difficulty in holding off opponents on game-ending drives. They regularly cough up big plays by the opponents in critical circumstances, and the problem usually boils down to scheme and positioning. No doubt Matt LaFleur is aware of this. He has frequently shown obvious frustration about it on the sideline and in media gatherings.

Through it all, he remains faithful to the man he picked in 2021 to replace Mike Pettine as coordinator, after Jim Leonhard reportedly turned the job down. Maybe it’s pride. Maybe it’s friendship. Maybe LaFleur feels Barry has done as much as can be expected with what he has to work with, considering injuries and a trade wiped out his entire starting secondary. If LaFleur has any regrets he is keeping them private. But as devastating failures such as the one against the Giants continue to pile up, the drumbeat to replace Barry gets louder.

Retaining Barry is looking even more dubious now considering the division rival Vikings’ defense under Brian Flores is developing into a top notch unit, having held six opponents under 17 points, including a shut out of the Raiders last weekend. Flores was available last off season.

LaFleur likely won’t make any change during the season, but when the curtain comes down on 2023 he would be wise to cut ties with his long time friend, before Barry takes LaFleur down with him.

My husband and sons all insist that most fan are clueless about what really is happening (or not happening) when mistakes are made, especially in coverage late in the game.

Full disclosure, I am a huge Jim Leonhard fan and hope one day he is our DC.

Lass makes some great points about 'results don't = right' in reviewing our screw-ups in the K.C., Chargers, and New Orleans games. We had significant coverage breakdowns there to the point we could easily be 3-10.

That notwithstanding, we are without some of our best players, and other are nicked up, especially on defense.

Moreover, consistently blown coverages, especially in pressure situations, do not bode well for our future.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
2 months ago

My husband and sons all insist that most fan are clueless about what really is happening (or not happening) when mistakes are made, especially in coverage late in the game.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


Absolutely! One example of that was a deep bomp to a WR deep, and we saw slow SS Bigby chasing him and had zero chance of catching up and we all blamed Bigby for being slow and screwing up.

On replay of the all 22, or larger screen, it showed that Bigby did his original job perfectly... but it was a play action pass and Nick Collins bite extremely hard on the fake, rushing down to get in a running hole... but it was a pass play. So it was Collins guy that was running deep free down the field, and Bigby actually did a great job mentally of quickly noticing the issue and taking off to fill Collins responsibilities, but Bigby was far from Collins originally position and doesn't have the speed and couldn't fill the responsibilities.


But considering Bigby's physically limitations, he did an absolutely great job on the play, you couldn't ask for any better, unless to notice it's a pass and yell at Collins to play the pass.

But we the fans totally balmed Bigby, when it was actually Collins fault.

This is especially true in zones, which is a lot more common in today's NFL. Man to man is easier to read and follow.

=================

That being said, does the play caller tell the CBs how close or far to line up?

I was more of a NT, so there never let me play CB. I would think that would be on the players.

Especially with Alexander telling us that the next defensive passing game coordinator has been on them about lining up closer to the WRs.

But to me it looked like Nixon just got burned by an extremely darn good quick juke move. That might of even gotten Charles Woodson, it was a great quick move by the slot WR.
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dfosterf
2 months ago
Brandon Staley just got fired.
I'd put him on the list of potential replacements, though his last outing as a head coach was a bit unfortunate, lol

Was pretty darn good as a Defensive Coordinator, though basically a one hit wonder.


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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .000018 % of the Packers


2 months ago

That being said, does the play caller tell the CBs how close or far to line up? ... Especially with Alexander telling us that the next defensive passing game coordinator has been on them about lining up closer to the WRs.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Typically, yes, they do tell them what technique to be in man ("off, press, way off" or whatever they call it). In zone, many times the player will disguise the coverage and line up on the WR wherever....as long as he gets to the zone. Brackets/hybrid they can set up all sorts of places.

Coaches tell them where they want them to line up. Do they listen.... often, not always.

Football is like chess except the pieces don't always do what they are told.

Go Packers!!!!
dyeah_gb
2 months ago

Absolutely! One example of that was a deep bomp to a WR deep, and we saw slow SS Bigby chasing him and had zero chance of catching up and we all blamed Bigby for being slow and screwing up.

...

Originally Posted by: beast 



Remember how much of a hitter Bigby was?!?!? Those were the days. Probably would draw a penalty every time now. Sigh.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
go.pack.go.
2 months ago

Brandon Staley just got fired.
I'd put him on the list of potential replacements, though his last outing as a head coach was a bit unfortunate, lol

Was pretty darn good as a Defensive Coordinator, though basically a one hit wonder.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



I’m not an expert on Staley’s system or coaching ability, but I was listening to a podcast one day (I think Andy Herman) and he pointed out that his defensive scheme is very similar to Joe Barry. The difference is that Staley had Aaron Donald in his prime wrecking opposing OLines. Not everyone has an Aaron Donald, especially not us. Kenny Clark is good for 1-2 splash plays per game, but he certainly doesn’t wreck games.
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Fan Shout
Martha Careful (24-Feb) : ty, and ty dfosterf for the new thread.
Zero2Cool (24-Feb) : Which came off like he's not ready
Zero2Cool (24-Feb) : Last I recall hearing was from GM who said he was "in the process"
Martha Careful (24-Feb) : Are there any relatively current reports on whether Bakhtiari is going to be ready to play?
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : That's a nice jump isn't it from 2023?
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : Bahaha
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : NFL announced today that the 2024 Salary Cap will be $255.4 million per club
buckeyepackfan (23-Feb) : 255.4mil!!!!
buckeyepackfan (23-Feb) : NFL anounces 2024 salary cap at 25.4mil, a 30mil increase from 2023.
Zero2Cool (23-Feb) : Chiefs sign Matt Araiza after punter dropped from lawsuit
buckeyepackfan (21-Feb) : Miracles can happen.
packerfanoutwest (20-Feb) : hope Aaron Hill can put an end to all these ridiculous hammie injuries
Zero2Cool (20-Feb) : ource says 2024 salary will be closer to $250 million than $243 million.
Zero2Cool (20-Feb) : Packers are hiring 49ers assistant strength coach Aaron Hill as their new head of strength and conditioning
Martha Careful (18-Feb) : No worries…Happy President's Day. I hope most of you have the day off.
dhazer (18-Feb) : Sorry Martha didn't see the story your on it already
beast (18-Feb) : I'm pretty sure those cap hits are going to hit no matter what, if the players are released, re-sign, whatever, the cap hits are earned
Martha Careful (18-Feb) : DH, 10.4 I agree. Z2C IIRC they could sign later, but lose ability to adjust void years/dead cap
Zero2Cool (18-Feb) : They could release before Monday. Then sign later, yea?
Zero2Cool (18-Feb) : Doesn't meant they won't be on Packers in 2024 does it?
dhazer (18-Feb) : @martha That's why said I guess we will know about Savage because if no extension we get a $5 million cap hit for him
Martha Careful (17-Feb) : Per Packers cap expert Ken Ingalls, Nixon, Savage, and Nijman have void provisions that will trigger on Feb. 19.
Zero2Cool (17-Feb) : I just looked at the contract overview. Not sure what Monday means
Zero2Cool (16-Feb) : How's that work? They can't sign him via free agency?
dhazer (16-Feb) : I am guessing we will know if they are bringing Savage back by Monday, if not extended his cap hit for void years is almost $6 million
Martha Careful (15-Feb) : Kudos to them for the quick hook.
Martha Careful (15-Feb) : Wilks looked clueless and frozen in the 4th Q and OT. I think Shanahan was telling him to dial up pressure and he was in capable.
Mucky Tundra (15-Feb) : *them
Mucky Tundra (15-Feb) : And it looks like San Fran missed out on all the good coordinators from the hiring cycle. I will now play the worlds smallest violin for the
Zero2Cool (15-Feb) : 49ers fire D-coordinator Steve Wilks after one season
packerfanoutwest (14-Feb) : So where were thet for the Championship games?
Martha Careful (13-Feb) : I think they were a reaction to prevent another incident like the Philly game earlier where an asst. coach got involved w/ an opp. playerg
packerfanoutwest (13-Feb) : what's up with the Ninja sideline officials?
umair_010 (12-Feb) : Watching mahomes roll on the floor after winning looked so fake and phoney. I can’t be the only one
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : The Chicago Bears are now on the clock
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Blocked XP didnt help either
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Taylor Swift starts to follow the Chiefs and watches a Super Bowl win her 1st year. Other fanbases watch enviously
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : San Fran lost this game in the 1st quarter when they piled up yards but didnt score
buckeyepackfan (12-Feb) : lol
buckeyepackfan (12-Feb) : Don't know how Vegas does it. 46.5 over/under I took the under
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : they had a chance to win it. Second, and five on the 5 yard line running left successfully and chose to run, right
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Sucks to suck San Fran
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Winner winner chicken dinner!
TheKanataThrilla (12-Feb) : Calling TD to Kelce...the perfect NFL marketing ending
TheKanataThrilla (12-Feb) : MVS was a dumb play there
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Ack what was that?
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Oh is it already down to this?
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Between the McCaffrey and Juszyzck plays I thought they were cooked
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Wow the Chiefs hang on
Mucky Tundra (12-Feb) : Giving up a 15 yard completion on 2nd & 12? Joe Barry level stuff
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