Zero2Cool
a year ago

Well in the end points are what decides if you win or lose so we could be the 31st ranked in yards given up and as long as we are top 5 in points against I will live with it. Just makes you wonder what the defense would be like if they were healthy. In the end I think all this playing time for these guys is going to be an advantage for us. But then again i would still love Leonard in play next year with his aggressive style defense.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 


I'm gonna say this up front. I'm over thinking this. HOWEVER! Maybe the defense got better because they had to become more creative and less reliant on the studs we're missing?

One of those backs against the wall kind of things.
UserPostedImage
beast
a year ago

I'm gonna say this up front. I'm over thinking this. HOWEVER! Maybe the defense got better because they had to become more creative and less reliant on the studs we're missing?

One of those backs against the wall kind of things.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


I certainly think that was part of it, especially during/after the 2022 season.

There was articles where the DL finally got Barry to listen for the last four games or so, which them asking for him to make it mentally simpler for them and just let them attack.

And also the end of the season meeting where according to CB Douglas, Barry asked them what they wanted and they said they wanted to be in the faces of WRs more (which everyone was claiming they were wanting, coaches, players, fans everyone, but players on the field weren't doing, and it has since come out that Alexander likes being off of the line, my guess is CB King is the same way, but this year, they're trying to get CBs to be more at the line).

And this year, instead of using the Safeties sort of interchangeable asking both Safeties to play both FS and SS which can add more confusion to the offenses, but asking more from the Safeties, they have gone toward a more clear FS (Ford) and SS (Savage) roles at the start of the season.

Also changed this year, is the DL (from last year, but with some more scheme changes) the DL has allowed to attack more and asked to protect the LBers behind them less. This helps the pass rush but possible hurts the run defense even more.

So Packers seriously need to keep upgrading the DL, because run defense is bad... which is partly due to scheme playing with lighter boxes but also not two gapping neither as much.

Scheme wise, the hardest job is DL stopping the run, so it would be nice getting some stud there. That being said, this draft might be lacking the Day 1 DL studs, but maybe there are some developmental ones.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
a year ago
Thoughts?



UserPostedImage
a year ago
I think it is an interesting observation. Said differently we are weak against the run...which we are.

If one were game planning against us, I would run the hell out of the ball work in play action. We have to be ready.
Go Packers!!!!
a year ago
Ken Lass wrote:

The Lass Word: Frustrated LaFleur Remains Loyal to Barry
Game ending failures ratchet up pressure for change.

By KenLass

Dec 14, 2023

It was the day after his team suffered a damaging loss to the New York Giants. Matt LaFleur stood at the podium for his news conference. He was asked about the inability of his defense to stop the Giants on the game’s final drive. Specifically, he addressed the backbreaking 32 yard completion to Wan’Dale Robinson that put New York within range of a walk off, game-winning field goal.

“Joe called man coverage, and we’re playing way off, which we shouldn’t be in that situation. We called another man coverage, and that’s when we got beat” the head coach remarked, referring to defensive coordinator Joe Barry. The reporter then followed up with the more pertinent question. Did the corners play off coverage in error, or is that where the coaches wanted them to line up?

LaFleur paused for three or four seconds, knowing he had to choose his words carefully. Would he point the finger at his coordinator? Or would he blame the players? He chose to do neither. “Well, we’re going to have to get that corrected” he answered generically. “If we’re calling man, we’ve got to be tighter.” He ended the comment abruptly, anxious for the beat writers to change the subject, which they did.

It’s not the first time LaFleur has publicly made remarks which could be interpreted as a clear message to Barry. There have been other post game reactions from the head coach critical of the positioning of pass defenders in clutch situations. Surely LaFleur understands that, whether the defensive play call is poorly schemed, or the players are just lined up in the wrong place, the responsibility falls on Barry.

But while LaFleur seems willing to openly acknowledge the repeated problems on defense, he remains fiercely loyal to his defensive lieutenant. He gave Barry unequivocal support for a third year at the helm last off season, despite two years of what was widely regarded as under achievement on that side of the ball. And truthfully, the defense does have its good moments. Against the Giants there was an impressive stop on fourth down, and four tackles for loss. The unit has hovered around the top ten in the league in points allowed per game.

Yet what doesn’t seem to change is the defense’s inability to close out a game, to come up with a stop when the team needs it the most. Until Monday night, that weakness was somewhat muted during this campaign because of a handful of fortuitous breaks. In the week three game against New Orleans the Packers rallied to score a touchdown giving them an 18-17 lead with 2:27 left to play. However, the defense then allowed the Saints to drive 47 yards in eight plays, setting up a very makeable 46 yard field goal to win the game. Rookie kicker Blake Grupe missed the kick.

In week eleven Green Bay scored with 2:33 remaining to grab a 23-20 advantage over the Chargers. With thirty seconds to play, rookie receiver Quentin Johnston got behind cornerback Carrington Valentine deep and was wide open. Justin Herbert dropped a perfect pass over Johnston’s shoulder for what should have been an easy, game-winning touchdown. Johnston dropped the ball.

In week thirteen the defense was trying to protect a 27-19 lead over the Chiefs. With 19 seconds left Patrick Mahomes launched a deep pass over the middle to Marquez Valdes Scantling. Valentine climbed over MVS’s back in an effort to get to the ball in what was universally acknowledged by all observers as pass interference. All observers, that is, except the officials, who called nothing. The penalty would have set the Chiefs up with a first and goal in the closing seconds.

Had those three situations gone the other way, the spotlight on Green Bay’s late game defensive shortcomings might be much brighter. To be sure, the breaks don’t always go in favor of the Packers. They have had their share of bad or missing calls. The point is, Joe Barry’s defensive teams have had consistent difficulty in holding off opponents on game-ending drives. They regularly cough up big plays by the opponents in critical circumstances, and the problem usually boils down to scheme and positioning. No doubt Matt LaFleur is aware of this. He has frequently shown obvious frustration about it on the sideline and in media gatherings.

Through it all, he remains faithful to the man he picked in 2021 to replace Mike Pettine as coordinator, after Jim Leonhard reportedly turned the job down. Maybe it’s pride. Maybe it’s friendship. Maybe LaFleur feels Barry has done as much as can be expected with what he has to work with, considering injuries and a trade wiped out his entire starting secondary. If LaFleur has any regrets he is keeping them private. But as devastating failures such as the one against the Giants continue to pile up, the drumbeat to replace Barry gets louder.

Retaining Barry is looking even more dubious now considering the division rival Vikings’ defense under Brian Flores is developing into a top notch unit, having held six opponents under 17 points, including a shut out of the Raiders last weekend. Flores was available last off season.

LaFleur likely won’t make any change during the season, but when the curtain comes down on 2023 he would be wise to cut ties with his long time friend, before Barry takes LaFleur down with him.

My husband and sons all insist that most fan are clueless about what really is happening (or not happening) when mistakes are made, especially in coverage late in the game.

Full disclosure, I am a huge Jim Leonhard fan and hope one day he is our DC.

Lass makes some great points about 'results don't = right' in reviewing our screw-ups in the K.C., Chargers, and New Orleans games. We had significant coverage breakdowns there to the point we could easily be 3-10.

That notwithstanding, we are without some of our best players, and other are nicked up, especially on defense.

Moreover, consistently blown coverages, especially in pressure situations, do not bode well for our future.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

My husband and sons all insist that most fan are clueless about what really is happening (or not happening) when mistakes are made, especially in coverage late in the game.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


Absolutely! One example of that was a deep bomp to a WR deep, and we saw slow SS Bigby chasing him and had zero chance of catching up and we all blamed Bigby for being slow and screwing up.

On replay of the all 22, or larger screen, it showed that Bigby did his original job perfectly... but it was a play action pass and Nick Collins bite extremely hard on the fake, rushing down to get in a running hole... but it was a pass play. So it was Collins guy that was running deep free down the field, and Bigby actually did a great job mentally of quickly noticing the issue and taking off to fill Collins responsibilities, but Bigby was far from Collins originally position and doesn't have the speed and couldn't fill the responsibilities.


But considering Bigby's physically limitations, he did an absolutely great job on the play, you couldn't ask for any better, unless to notice it's a pass and yell at Collins to play the pass.

But we the fans totally balmed Bigby, when it was actually Collins fault.

This is especially true in zones, which is a lot more common in today's NFL. Man to man is easier to read and follow.

=================

That being said, does the play caller tell the CBs how close or far to line up?

I was more of a NT, so there never let me play CB. I would think that would be on the players.

Especially with Alexander telling us that the next defensive passing game coordinator has been on them about lining up closer to the WRs.

But to me it looked like Nixon just got burned by an extremely darn good quick juke move. That might of even gotten Charles Woodson, it was a great quick move by the slot WR.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
a year ago
Brandon Staley just got fired.
I'd put him on the list of potential replacements, though his last outing as a head coach was a bit unfortunate, lol

Was pretty darn good as a Defensive Coordinator, though basically a one hit wonder.

a year ago

That being said, does the play caller tell the CBs how close or far to line up? ... Especially with Alexander telling us that the next defensive passing game coordinator has been on them about lining up closer to the WRs.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Typically, yes, they do tell them what technique to be in man ("off, press, way off" or whatever they call it). In zone, many times the player will disguise the coverage and line up on the WR wherever....as long as he gets to the zone. Brackets/hybrid they can set up all sorts of places.

Coaches tell them where they want them to line up. Do they listen.... often, not always.

Football is like chess except the pieces don't always do what they are told.

Go Packers!!!!
dyeah_gb
a year ago

Absolutely! One example of that was a deep bomp to a WR deep, and we saw slow SS Bigby chasing him and had zero chance of catching up and we all blamed Bigby for being slow and screwing up.

...

Originally Posted by: beast 



Remember how much of a hitter Bigby was?!?!? Those were the days. Probably would draw a penalty every time now. Sigh.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
go.pack.go.
a year ago

Brandon Staley just got fired.
I'd put him on the list of potential replacements, though his last outing as a head coach was a bit unfortunate, lol

Was pretty darn good as a Defensive Coordinator, though basically a one hit wonder.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



I’m not an expert on Staley’s system or coaching ability, but I was listening to a podcast one day (I think Andy Herman) and he pointed out that his defensive scheme is very similar to Joe Barry. The difference is that Staley had Aaron Donald in his prime wrecking opposing OLines. Not everyone has an Aaron Donald, especially not us. Kenny Clark is good for 1-2 splash plays per game, but he certainly doesn’t wreck games.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : *front four
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen
Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires
wpr (30-May) : It's all good.
beast (30-May) : Yeah, and I enjoyed your comments and just attempted to add to it. Sorry if I did it incorrectly.
wpr (30-May) : Beast I never said Henderson was the salt of the earth. Nor even that he was correct. Just quoting the guy.
Zero2Cool (29-May) : What did you do??
Zero2Cool (29-May) : Whoa
beast (29-May) : OMG the website is now all white, even some white on white text
beast (29-May) : Henderson, who admits to taking cocaine during the Super Bowl against the Steelers, might dislike Bradshaw as he lost two Superbowls to him
wpr (28-May) : Hollywood Henderson said Bradshaw “is so dumb, he couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and an A.”
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Cooper stock=BUY BUY BUY
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Also notes he’s playing with more confidence.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : @AndyHermanNFL MLF says there was a time last year where Cooper was at 220 pounds. Now he’s at 240 and still flying around.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : And don't even get me started on Frank Caliendos "impersonations"
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I got tired of them being circle jerks with them overlaughing at each others jokes.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : It used to be must watch TV for me. now it's "meh" maybe to hear injury update
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I haven't watched the pregame shows in years and I don't feel like I've missed a thing
Zero2Cool (28-May) : Love says knee affected him all season, groin injury didn't help matters.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : I used to enjoy him on FOX Pregame. Now it's like a frat party of former Patriots.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : LaFleur on Watson: “Christian is doing outstanding. I would say he’s ahead of schedule.”
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

6-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

27-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

27-May / Random Babble / Martha Careful

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

21-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.